grades and recruitment

[ASUADPi]

A lot more recently PNM's are coming to Greekchat and asking for advice about recruitment, and they have low GPA's.

I got to thinking about it and I'm wondering why the schools have GPA requirements to allow girls to go through recruitment that are LOWER than what the chapters will accept?

I know that some schools may only require a 2.5 for a girl to go through recruitment, but some sororities their nationals has said "you may only accept girls who have a ? gpa" (2.8, 3.0, etc...).

So my question is why are the schools allowing these girls to go through recruitment? I don't want to be mean, but all it does is give them false hopes. If the school knows that the most if not all chapters won't accept anyone with lets say less than a 2.8, shouldn't they raise their minimum to be theirs? To me that seems the most logical.

I've already had to tell 2 PNM's, as politely and nicely as possible, that their low GPA's and non-freshman status doesn't help them in recruitment, in fact it will hinder them. I truly feel bad, but I also don't feel that they should be mislead by anyone here or even at the university that they will in fact receive a bid.

Thoughts? Discussion?

[clemsongirl]

On one hand, Panhellenics may not want to have a say in who can sign up for recruitment despite knowing what the chapters want because it's not up to them to tell girls they most likely will be released, just like at schools where recs are absolutely required and Panhel says they're not necessary to participate. On the other hand, Clemson for example says on their registration page in highlighter yellow that any PNM with under a 2.7 will be immediately released from recruitment, so my logic fails a little there.

I would rather the GPA requirement be raised to the lowest minimum among all the sororities, but maybe that falls into MS? I'm not sure, but I know girls going through recruitment with me that probably won't get too far because of their GPA and I feel bad for them already because they don't seem to know of the heartache that lies ahead.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

We've talked about this here before. The bottom line is that the schools can't decide for the sororities who they will/won't take, and the school doesn't know every sorority's MS procedures, so it would be nice if they strongly discouraged PNM's from rushing with low GPA's, but they just don't do it.

[littlesquirrel]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

On one hand, Panhellenics may not want to have a say in who can sign up for recruitment despite knowing what the chapters want because it's not up to them to tell girls they most likely will be released, just like at schools where recs are absolutely required and Panhel says they're not necessary to participate. On the other hand, Clemson for example says on their registration page in highlighter yellow that any PNM with under a 2.7 will be immediately released from recruitment, so my logic fails a little there.

Are they still allowed to go through one round? I can still see women signing up for recruitment, being released after the first round due to GPA, and then going for COB when their GPA is higher. The sisters would remember them from before, which they may view as a positive.

On another note, do many sororities have have GPA limit not just re: membership selection, for sisters as well? Groups at some schools do advertise to PNMs that they have a minimum GPA to follow as a new member and a member--but this may not be common.

I guess it would be best to address why many schools don't stress the importance of grades during recruitment--especially considering that if a PNM does join, it will only add more stress and time management issues to keep up!

[ASUADPi]

I know for ADPi the chapters have their own GPA requirements and if a sister falls below that requirement there are "problems" (lack of a better word) for that sister.

[ASUADPi]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

We've talked about this here before. The bottom line is that the schools can't decide for the sororities who they will/won't take, and the school doesn't know every sorority's MS procedures, so it would be nice if they strongly discouraged PNM's from rushing with low GPA's, but they just don't do it.

It just seems cruel to lead a PNM on. To let her think that her 2.5 is "good enough". Yes, some girls will understand that it isn't, but there are a lot of "special snowflakes" out there who won't get it.

I just feel that if, lets say ABC chapter will only accept new members with a 2.8 or higher, and they are the lowest when it comes to new member GPA, that the university should say that PNM's must have a 2.8 to go through recruitment. Then there is a chance for that PNM to possibly get a bid. Does that make sense.

Or they just need to be honest with the girls in advance and tell them straight out that low GPA's will probably get them cut. I think they should be spared the tremendous heartache that comes later.

[shirley1929]

It's a gray area. Without getting too much into MS, I know of girls who had below the rock-bottom minimum chapter GPA and still pledged. There were extenuating circumstances (bad HS semester due to a death in the family, illness etc...) and that PNM was well-liked and exceptions must have been made. The chapter was willing to take the risk on her.

If she'd been told she could not participate by panhellenic - well, that would have been a shame.

ETA - it's the exception and not the rule, for sure!!

[HQWest]

I think that some universities have noticed that students in the Greek system are more likely to get involved on campus, more likely to graduate, and more likely to give back to the community. A healthy Greek system can help overall retention, and so the university wants to encourage participation.

Without getting into MS, some chapters of some NPC groups can pledge one or two women below the GPA requirement and then wait until the following semester to see if they bring their grades up to initiate them. This is rare and is something that would be a case by case basis and would usually be for an upperclassman that everyone already knew. If she can't bring her grades up by the end of the semester, then she can't be initiated and that can lead to heartbreak. Especially in a competitive recruitment, it is better to let a student that doesn't meet the GPA requirement go first round. It is often better to wait until COB the following semester

[33girl]

I think that in some places, allowing a girl to go through early rounds and meet women (who pleasantly surprise her by NOT being the sorority stereotype) and letting her know "you were just cut because of grades, everyone really dug you!" can actually motivate a girl to improve her grades and re-rush because she thinks "hey, that's something I want to be part of."

The coolness of this idea, however, flies out the window when you are talking about super competitive rushes where the rush fee itself is quite large, before you even touch on the investment made in clothes and shoes.

[AZTheta]

Arizona strongly discourages PNMs from going through if their GPA doesn't meet the chapters' published minimums. In other words, PNMs are told point-blank by Greek Life Office that the probability of being released is extremely high. That said, there are plenty of special snowflakes who insist on going through and are released after Open House.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by littlesquirrel

Are they still allowed to go through one round? I can still see women signing up for recruitment, being released after the first round due to GPA, and then going for COB when their GPA is higher. The sisters would remember them from before, which they may view as a positive.

The cached webpage (for some reason the official site is down) says: *NOTE: You must have a minimum 2.70 cumulative GPA in order to participate in Panhellenic Recruitment. All GPAs are checked and verified pre-recruitment. Those that do not meet the 2.70 cumulative GPA requirement will be released and will not be permitted to participate in the recruitment process. We do not round GPAs. NO EXCEPTIONS WILL BE MADE.*

I'm not sure if this lets you go through the first round or not, but they make it sound like it doesn't. I'll see if I can ask my Pi Chi tonight because I am curious as well.

[littlesquirrel]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

The cached webpage (for some reason the official site is down) says: *NOTE: You must have a minimum 2.70 cumulative GPA in order to participate in Panhellenic Recruitment. All GPAs are checked and verified pre-recruitment. Those that do not meet the 2.70 cumulative GPA requirement will be released and will not be permitted to participate in the recruitment process. We do not round GPAs. NO EXCEPTIONS WILL BE MADE.*

I'm not sure if this lets you go through the first round or not, but they make it sound like it doesn't. I'll see if I can ask my Pi Chi tonight because I am curious as well.

I seem to remember my Panhel stating something similar. I've never been on the Panhel side of things, so I don't know when they check grades or if it is possible to warn PNMs. I also don't know to what extent that oversteps some boundaries.

I'm glad some schools do really stress the grades, though!

[Old_Row]

Well letting them rush anyway can still cause all kinds of hurt feelings for the PNMs and make the sorority members look really bad. My school goes out of its way to tell PNMs that a minimum of 3.0 is strongly suggested to go through and even puts the suggested minimum for each house in our recruitment guide and kind of hits the PNMs over the head with it. Still every year girls you really like that you know from home or whatever come through with GPAs that just have no chance at all and you have to cut them. It ends up making them think you don't like them because by letting them go through recruitment it gives them false hope that someone can do something in your chapter because we already know her and can somehow get something special done to get her a bid in spite of her 2.6 or whatever. It really causes a whole bunch of hurt feelings and all for no reason.

[ollie dog]

Originally Posted by Old_Row

Well letting them rush anyway can still cause all kinds of hurt feelings for the PNMs and make the sorority members look really bad. My school goes out of its way to tell PNMs that a minimum of 3.0 is strongly suggested to go through and even puts the suggested minimum for each house in our recruitment guide and kind of hits the PNMs over the head with it. Still every year girls you really like that you know from home or whatever come through with GPAs that just have no chance at all and you have to cut them. It ends up making them think you don't like them because by letting them go through recruitment it gives them false hope that someone can do something in your chapter because we already know her and can somehow get something special done to get her a bid in spite of her 2.6 or whatever. It really causes a whole bunch of hurt feelings and all for no reason.

Agreed. When I first went to college, it was at a top 20 school so high school GPA wasn't ever something we had to worry about for fall recruitment. We did switch to a winter recruitment though, so there was a minimum GPA as freshman 1st quarter grades were received before rush started. I ended up transferring and graduating from a state school near home, and girls would go through that we all knew from high school and yes, there were a bunch of hurt feelings when the super popular girl with the super low GPA went through. A couple of these girls ended up doing really, really well in college (and a few that I recall went on to medical/dental schools), but those were rare. And it's sometime just too risky to take a gamble on those when all you have to go off of is high school grades.

At my daughter's school (Kansas), the minimum strongly suggested GPA is 3.0 and each chapters' average GPA is published in the Greek Guide. The girls are warned that if their GPAs aren't at whatever houses' average, then they should anticipate a cut. Not that it always happens, but as a general warning it's very fair.

[ASUADPi]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Arizona strongly discourages PNMs from going through if their GPA doesn't meet the chapters' published minimums. In other words, PNMs are told point-blank by Greek Life Office that the probability of being released is extremely high. That said, there are plenty of special snowflakes who insist on going through and are released after Open House.

That's good that Arizona does that. If special snowflake wants to go through with a crappy GPA even though they have been told that they will be released, well let them.

I think more schools should be open and upfront with the PNM's. I really think it could diminish a lot of the anguish that the PNM's go through later.

Thankfully the advice I have given to two PNM's whose GPA is a bit low for recruitment has been taken and they thanked me for it. None of us go around saying things to hurt a PNM but they should be told the truth.