Sholuld Greeks Speahead a movement to reduce the drinking age to 18?

[James]

Underage drinking is killing Greeks more than any other topic.

But I think its like the prohibition situation, you have just have to concede that 18-20 year olds are going to drink and that coming up with stiffer and stiffer penalities is just a way of persecuting a group of citizens

As far as Greek Life goes, this generally accepted social activitiy is going to be the bane of all of us because its a behavioral fact: People drink under age.

ITs the single biggest reason why chapters get their pulled. And in almost every case where the drinkers are underage, the chapter is auotmatically at fault.

I think greeks should head a lobby to do this before we eventually lose it all.

[MooseGirl]

that's an interesting idea...doubt there'd be enough support though.

But where do you get your "behavioural fact" from? can you cite me some studies please?
I know I am not what most consider normal since I did not drink before I was 19 (which is the legal age here) and I've never been "wasted" and I always watch what I drink. I've never been an uncontrolled freak like most other youth out there.

I'm not an extraordinary person, so why is it so hard for others to restrain? Yes I know waiting til 21 must be very diffficult, but get over it. It's fricken alcohol.

And don't you think if greek members were to head a lobby, it would just add to the negative image Greek Life already has?

I was at a bar with friends downtown one night and a couple fraternity guys started talking to us. They were from somewhere in Illinois I think. Anyway, when we told him we were in a sorority here, he asked what the point was of joining a sorority or fraternity here since we could all drink? I told him as president of my chapter that was a pretty narrownminded view and almost offensive statement to which he replied he was also pres of his chapter.
I hope that this American Greek isn't representative of all of you because I certainly think it's pathetic for men and women to join Greek Life ONLY to drink. (as one of many reasons, sure, but for the sole reason - no)

[33girl]

I agree with James 110%.

Greeks' relationships with their national headquarters have gone downhill (overall) as the HQs are forced to be policemen instead of inspirations and sources of help. Same for the school administrations.

Canadian drinking age is an entirely different story - if I'm not mistaken, until recently there was an extra year in high school which meant many students didn't even enter university until they were of age. In the States, depending on when you entered kindergarten, you sometimes don't even turn 21 until the last semester of your senior year. This is also a BIG BIG BIG BIG reason there are issues with senior retention. The seniors all want to go to the bar instead of having alcohol denied to them at a chapter function - and after waiting 21 years, who can blame them?

No, Greek life isn't all about drinking. But this type of prohibition of a group of adults has had the same effect that the Eighteenth Amendment had - it's made criminals out of people who normally would never break the law.

[damasa]

Originally posted by MooseGirl
I've never been an uncontrolled freak like most other youth out there.

This is also a pretty shallow view on youth if you ask me. You had some good insight in your post but when I read this I realized that you fell victim to the "most young people shouldn't drink because they can't handle it" crowd. That's simply not true because alcohol doesn't play favorites and it doesn't care about age. Anyone can be an uncontrolled freak and I tend to think that "most youth" are not but instead get labeled this way because of the few that are.

BTW what one American Greek says does not speak for all Americans in the greek system. I'm sure you'll find some in the Canadian system that have the same feelings because it's bound to happen no matter where you go.

[ZTAngel]

I don't think the "uncontrolled freak like other youth" has to do as much with individual maturity as it does with societal factors. Plain and simple: American youth have more incidents with alcoholism and alcohol-related injuries/deaths then any other country in the world. Rather than it being that American youth have no maturity and are uncontrolled freaks, I think it's that we view alcohol as a forbidden fruit. The drinking age is 18 or 19 in most other countries; in many of those countries, the law is pretty lax and children in their teens have their first sips of wine with their parents. It's not like that here. We go into college away from the watchful eye of our parents and we're now around a bunch of people who are around our age. We join greek organizations and our big brothers/sisters are of legal age. I remember when I first joined ZTA how jealous I was of the older girls who could go out to all the bars and drink. It results in underagers getting fake IDs and drinking way over the limit since it is forbidden.

If the drinking age were lowered to 18, we wouldn't just have less problems in our greek organizations but we would have less problems in the country as a whole.

But, as for Greeks lobbying to lower the drinking age, I don't think that's such a good idea. We're already stereotyped as drunked, oversexed kids that live off their rich parents. Greeks lobbying to get the drinking age lowered would probably be almost humorous for some anti-Greeks.

[aoiikristi]

I tend to agree with James as well.

While I was chapter adviser, my biggest source of stress was trying to police underage drinking in the chapter. I tend to think that if the drinking age were 18 or even 19, alcohol abuse wouldn't be the huge issue that it has become for college-age students.
Unfortunately, underage drinking isn't just a Greek issue, it's a college issue, and I think we as Greeks are just more concerned about it than universities in general are. I tend to think that non-Greeks have a larger population of underage drinkers in a college setting, because they don't have an organization over them telling them/educating them not to do it.

However, I also agree that if Greek organizations were to lobby to change this, it would be bad press for us. Those outside of the Greek system already think all we do is party, and if we were to lobby for a lower drinking age, it would only add fuel to the fire.

[opaldragon]

The US is the only industrialized country that has a 21+ legal drinking age. Alcohol use is made into such a huge issue in the US - there are two amendments in the constitution dealing with it. Not only that, but it is also a country that has issues with the female nipple being exposed in the media, and finds the human body and human sexuality something to be ashamed of and hidden from view. It all boils down to the puritanical beliefs that censor anything that it can get it's metaphorical hands on, making everything is censored all the more appealing as it's the forbidden fruit. Get over the hang-ups.
Coming back from the tangent, I don't think that Greeks solely should be the ones to spearhead a lobbying effort to lower the minimum drinking age. I think it should an effort by all 18-20yr olds that live in the US. Even if the 18-20yr olds in question don't go to college, they are still affected by this. If I'm not mistaken, the drinking age was once 18 but was upped to 21 in the past 40yrs or so (if anyone has the year, that would be great, thanks).
How many of us that are 18-20yrs old have had to tell our 21+ friends that no, we can't go chill with them at the bar, but thanks for the invite? I know that I personally deal with this all the time as most of my friends are 21+ and I don't turn 21 until October (so if anyone is in LV and wants to come celebrate with me at that time, just drop me a PM). I know others that get fake IDs and use them, and then are caught and have that on their records. As a criminal justice major, I won't do that to myself.
It's more annoying than anything because it's such an arbitrary age. Let's make it standardized at 18 - you can vote, you can buy tobacco, you can buy alcohol, and you can go fight (and die if it comes to it) for you country at 18. I made that argument to a police officer that I worked with on a project one day (who coincidently was a smoker) and he informed me that at 18, human lungs are already fully developed but it takes until 21 for the human liver and endocrine system to fully develop, so the US govt doesn't want to be responsible for hindering the full physical development of its youth. I think he was talking out of his ass and this all a bunch of bullshit. If any medical expert can please verify or negate this, that'd be great.
So no, I don't think Greeks should be the ones solely responsible for leading this campaign. I think it should be all 18-20yr olds and all those people who are older who remember what it is to be 18-20yrs old, and, pretty much, anyone who understands what it is to deal with such an arbitrary restriction.

[Lady Pi Phi]

I agree the legal age should be lowerd to 18.
While in most provinces and territories the legal drinking age is 19, Alberta and Quebec have set the legal drinking age to 18. (also, note that it is illegal to buy cigarettes here under the age of 19...and Ontario was the only province with a 5th year of highschool, yet many students cames from outside the province meaning many students were still underage.)
The way I see it is your either considered and adult or your not. You're not not partially an adult at 18, then another part at 19, and the finally at 21. There should be one age for everything. I would like to see it at 18, even though this doesn't apply to me anymore...I am legal everywhere. If not, then pick an age and stick to it. Meaning, you can't drink, buy cigarettes, vote, join the military, rent porn, enter into contract, etc, etc, until age X.

[angelove]

If I'm not mistaken, the drinking age was once 18 but was upped to 21 in the past 40yrs or so (if anyone has the year, that would be great, thanks).

The drinking age was 21 in most areas after the end of Prohibition, but I think it was lowered to 18 or 19 in most states during the Vietnam War era. (I could easily be wrong on this, so I'd be grateful for any correction. I am pretty sure about the next part ...)
In the mid-1980s, the federal government threatened to withhold highway funds from any state that did not raise its drinking age to 21. States were allowed to grandfather-in people born before a certain date. As far as I am aware, there was never any rational reason given for this governmental blackmail.
I agree that this is an issue that should not be limited to Greeks, although Greeks can use their networking connections and political skills to boost it. This would be a great way to get the 18-21 population to vote, as they traditionally have low turnout.
The problem is that no politician is going to back this cause, because of the strong anti-alcohol lobby. The best idea would be to get it started in states with strong referendum provisions, such as California and Florida. Heck, Florida amended its constitution a few years ago to protect pregnant pigs, so the drinking age issue might be able to get on the ballot pretty easily. Once it gets on the ballot, then get out the vote among young people - Greeks, non-Greeks, collegians, workers, everyone - using MTV and other popular media.

[Little E]

wow, so i went to a school that did not enforce a 21 drinking age. meaning, security would not stop and card you, you were allowed to walk around campus with open containers, greek parties (yes i know about insurance) allowed people to carry in their own alcohol, and generally, unless you were being destructive, you could do what you wanted.

it was interesting to go to a college like that, and i loved it. we were treated as though we were adults, however, when not watched, there can still be a lot of issues with alcohol poisoning. drinking games, increased cases of sexual assult and general damage to property. I think the free nature of my campus maybe increased these risks slightly.

Also, NPC houses, are we not supposed to have dry houses? mine was fairly far from it, but nevertheless, we walked a fine line that could create huge risk if anything every happened. it is much easier to control women when most of them can't purchase, now if they all can, enforcement of that will still be an issue, our houses will not become 'wet' overnight. Our insurance may very well go up, if everyone were of drinking age...thats added risk...

finally, while i support it, there is the whole correlation of federal funding to highway systems. for example, WI, where i grew up and went to college, was forced to change to 21 or lose federal funding for highway systems, (we have wonderful roads up there) then IL an MN and Iowa were at 21 (right before we switched) and you had large numbers of kids crossing the state lines and then driving home. the drinking age is a state issue, and so because of that national change is hard. another problem is that 18-20 year old kids are a roatating age bracket, also with low voting turnouts, thus you have less intrest from politicans to push the issue, and people keep getting older, and thus, care less as they move farther away from the age bracket.

Yea it would be nice...but honestly, maybe greeks should work on community service, safe use alcohol programs and other 'good' works, than just changing the age...my 2cents

[33girl]

Originally posted by Little E
Also, NPC houses, are we not supposed to have dry houses? mine was fairly far from it, but nevertheless, we walked a fine line that could create huge risk if anything every happened. it is much easier to control women when most of them can't purchase, now if they all can, enforcement of that will still be an issue, our houses will not become 'wet' overnight. Our insurance may very well go up, if everyone were of drinking age...thats added risk...

After a chapter installation I attended in the mid-80's, the sisters had a private party at their lodge complete with keg, which got busted by the campus police. National personnel were there and they pretty much laughed it off. I think it's hard for anyone younger to comprehend how much underage drinking was NOT a big deal until everyone started suing everyone.

I don't think drinking age has anything to do with insurance. That's like saying your fire insurance would go up since everyone is 18 and of legal age to smoke.

[Tom Earp]

The Adult stigma seems to be a real problem. The Federal Govt. enacted a law and not long after that the speed law.

In other words, we as a Nation were blackmailed. Do this or else! Oh like what, oops Federal funds.

The Forbidden fruit is a very good analogy to be sure. Sorry boys and girls, you can vote, and you can join the Military and maybe die, but you cannot drink!



As screwed up as Kansas is, they at one time had the best of both worlds. 18-21 could go to bars and drink 3.2 % beer. Socialize and meet friends. 21 + go to clubs and have mixed drinks.

There was more of the social scene then than gulping booze down now at partys.

At LXA Last General Assembly which I attended, there was an Amendment to disallow Tobacco products in the houses.

Needless to say, I was livid, as that is houw I paid to get there, I own a smoke shop

A Young man from Central Mo. U. got up with a dip in his mouth and Moved it be tabled Indefinitly. Passed with a voice vote. As big as Jeff was, I wanted to go over and Hug him!

We as Greeks seem to be pushed into a corner by Moderating our Morality. What is next, the kind of music?

[33girl]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
As screwed up as Kansas is, they at one time had the best of both worlds. 18-21 could go to bars and drink 3.2 % beer. Socialize and meet friends. 21 + go to clubs and have mixed drinks.

There was more of the social scene then than gulping booze down now at partys.

I like this idea.

I don't know how it is in other states, but here in PA you can't even ENTER a bar if you're under 21, even if you don't drink any alcohol. It really puts a huge wall between legal and not.

[dakareng]

I, too am old enough to remember the two tiered system in Ohio that was similar to the one he described in Kansas. It created some very interesting events that you would never see today (part of Greek Week were the "Pony Keg Killer" and the "Beer Olympics... I left off the names of the fraternities that sponsored these events so none of their current members flame this thread with statements about their current risk management policies-- remember this was 20+ years ago)

The issue when voters in Ohio raised the drinking age from 18 to 19 was high school students (and yes, I was going to bars while in HS) coming in hung over. Ohio was one of the last holdouts for the 21 law and it was enacted from pressure from the feds. It has created the "forbidden fruit" aura and I see more binge drinking now.

Greeks are NOT the ones who should spearhead any effort to change it. That would feed into every stereotype out there. It should come from 18-21 year olds demonstrating community activism and using the voting/ serving in the military factors. Above all, politicians cater to those who vote and contribute to their campaigns (either $$ or time). You want to change something-- vote and get involved! Make friends with your congressional representative!

It won't happen as long as Harvard and other places are publishing data about binge drinking, etc unless someone actually does a well designed study that compares pre/post academic perfomances/ death & injury from alcohol and PROVES that raising the drinking age to 21 has backfired.

[MooseGirl]

Originally posted by damasa
This is also a pretty shallow view on youth if you ask me. You had some good insight in your post but when I read this I realized that you fell victim to the "most young people shouldn't drink because they can't handle it" crowd. That's simply not true because alcohol doesn't play favorites and it doesn't care about age. Anyone can be an uncontrolled freak and I tend to think that "most youth" are not but instead get labeled this way because of the few that are.

BTW what one American Greek says does not speak for all Americans in the greek system. I'm sure you'll find some in the Canadian system that have the same feelings because it's bound to happen no matter where you go.

Yeah, I was pretty bitter when I wrote that because I just went to a party on saturday and in my experience it is the younger people who go overboard with the drinking. I'm sure some of it has to do with experience, but I still don't think it's necessary for everyone to have a very negative drinking experience before they learn how to drink responsibly.

As for the American Greek - I didn't let him bias me. I know I have sisters all over the US who did not join for the drinking aspects. I just get annoyed when I see the stereotype in action.