Anti-War Protesters....

[ZZ-kai-]

I understand that as Americans, we are fortunate to be able to protest this, and protest that..., but I am fed up with these Anti-War demonstrators. What makes me the angriest, are these people walking around with signs that say "NO WAR FOR OIL". Dumbasses, we are not there for oil.

This is not the 70's, so don't try to re-live your hippie days, this is not the movie PCU (We're not gonna protest, Gutter is a tool), this is real life. We are already at war, protesting it will solve nothing more than shutting down Michigan Ave. The least we all should be doing is SUPPORTING our troops.

I leave you Anti-War protesters with this: If you are so anti-war, move your ass to Iraq for a month and tell me how much you like living under Saddam's regime. Were the rape rooms not enough? Were the beatings and murders not enough? How about the mutilations to the Iraqi Olympians who did not perform well enough? Using chemical weapons to murder your own people by the thousands, is that enough? Killing innocent women and children, is that enough?

Then come back to the good ole U.S. of A., and protest another war. I dare ya.


I am Pro- American

[Kevin]

Well said!

[AlphaSigOU]

F*ckin' A right well said, ZZ -kai- ! (Hoists a 'virtual' beer.)

[KillarneyRose]

On the news last night, wives of the 101st Airborne soldiers were being interviewed and the reporter asked one of them what she thought of the protesters. She answered that "it hurts to see them doing that while my husband is risking his life."

Of COURSE it does! People say they're protesting because it's a moral decision, but doing something to inflict pain on someone who is going through so much is IMmoral if you ask me.

Sidebar:
A local businessman was interviewed in the paper and he was asked why there aren't counter protests planned for Annapolis this week. He said, "well, most of us have jobs." I thought that was pretty funny [no flames please! I know that plenty of protesters are working, contributing members of society but he hit the nail right on the head as far as image]

By the way, BRAVO zzkai!

[moe.ron]

i wanted to say something, but for the sake of peace in the board, i shall not.

[lovelyivy84]

I am not anti-war. Nor do I consider myslef pro-war. Why? Because it really makes no difference at this point. We are AT war. No point in protesting a political reality when it won't do a damn bit of good. I think the pro-war rhetoric (saying that protesting is anti-AMerican is dumb. Protesting the political machine is what this country is based on, anyone remember that?), is just as nauseating and ridiculous as the anti-war rhetoric (war for oil is simplistic) personally but it would be nice if we could all find balance.

Is it really constructive to criticise others like THIS? Greekchat is an open forum but you guys are quite succesfully creating an INCREDIBLY hostile place for sharing those opinions. I personally would really like to read the opinions of those "hippies" that you are disparaging. I doubt all anti-war protesters are unemployed, flower children, anti-American, or middle class. Just like not all pro-war folk are corn-bred, white, middle Americans.

[Kevin]

And you say that the "anti-war" folks haven't created a polarized environment by their posting of anti-war website links, long descriptions of why "bombs are always wrong", etc?

I'm not doubting that this thread is sending a message that many will disagree with. But I am saying that it's probably around a 5:1 ratio of threads saying "Bush is dumb", etc to pro-American (or pro-war depending on who you ask) threads such as this.

It's a topic that carries a great deal of potential to polarize groups of people -- as long as the conversation remains civil and does not generate into personal attacks I really see no harm in it.

[Munchkin03]

Arya, I think I'd like to hear what you have to say. I've noticed that our opinions are often similar, and it's nice to hear voices that dissent from the norm.

Why does one have to be "Anti-American" if they are anti-war? I am extremely grateful for having been born in a country where I had freedoms that people will die trying to receive by coming here. I pay taxes, vote in every election, write my congressmen on a regular basis, and keep myself knowledgeable of most things that go on in my hometown. I'd consider those actions pretty pro-American. I am a "Pro-American", productive member of society.

But I am against this war more than anything I could ever be against in my life (except the anti-abortion movement, which is another thread). That does not mean that I am against any and all wars--for example, I felt the war in Afghanistan was just, and therefore supported action there. I feel our actions in Iraq are not just. Therefore, I will not support what I see as an unjust war. I support the people who are fighting on behalf of GW's campaign, but I do not support this war.

I have many friends and family members that are in the Persian Gulf right now. Does it hurt me to see the war protesters on TV? Hell no! If anything, I know that many of these people want the servicemen and servicewomen to come home safely--how can that be hurtful? I'd frankly rather see a protest than see bodybags.

If there's anything I'm fed up with, it's the people who allege that I am anti-American because I do not support this war.

[KillarneyRose]

I don't want to criticize anyone here. In fact, the vast majority of posters on this subject have done a really good job of making their views known without being offensive and I applaud that! LovelyIvy is, as always, a level head in any argument who makes me sit back and think about what I write.

But when I see, in my personal life, the child of a deployed reservist friend not wanting to go to school because her teacher says every day how this country is evil and wrong or the 7 months pregnant wife of an F/18 pilot being asked by a nurse in her (civilian) Ob-Gyn's office if she feels guilty because her husband is "killing people in Iraq", it makes me angry at people who don't know when to keep quiet.

Would any of you feel differently?

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by ZZ-kai-
I understand that as Americans, we are fortunate to be able to protest this, and protest that..., but I am fed up with these Anti-War demonstrators. What makes me the angriest, are these people walking around with signs that say "NO WAR FOR OIL". Dumbasses, we are not there for oil.

This is not the 70's, so don't try to re-live your hippie days.

The least we all should be doing is SUPPORTING our troops.

Then come back to the good ole U.S. of A., and protest another war. I dare ya.

Richard Nixon would have been proud of you.

To some extent, every dictator in history would have, too. They didn't want any dissent either.

I find your comments about the 70s and hippies patently offensive. I've never been a hippy, but if I choose to question the reasons and rationality of this particular war, you automatically quantify me that way. Go find a few of the Special Forces vets who joined "Vietnam Veterans Against the War" back then and chat with them about it.

Have you been to war? Some of us "70's hippies" have. In that war, over 50,000 of my generation came home in body bags and hundreds of thousands of others came home maimed either physically or mentally.

What you're doing here is called "name calling," and it's a very weak argumentative/propaganda technique.

If I were seeing signs calling our troops "baby killers" like I did back then, I would be angry. Again. However, the signs I see on TV during the present demonstrations support our military -- what they don't support is the war itself. In fact, many I've heard interviewed feel that they are supporting our troops by trying to get them out of harms way. There's a really big difference there.

I heard an interview on NPR yesterday from a husband and wife -- both Gulf War veterans who have significant problems. They support our troops, but not the war. Are they un-American? Listen to their story about their physical and mental problems, and the neurological problems of their children and then tell them they are to their face.

Take a look at the face of the black father on last night's news, holding the picture of his Marine son who died yesterday, asking the President to look closely at "my only son." Do you think he's un-American?

If you really do understand our American right to "protest this and protest that," (your words) you will understand that your comments are offensive to many of your fellow citizens. Note the term -- fellow citizens. You have the right to support the war, others have the right not to.

Is that a difficult concept to understand? Saddam wouldn't understand it either. That's one of the things that makes us different.

Take whatever stand you wish -- that's your right. Remember that ALL of your fellow citizens have the same right, though.

By the way, I've been Pro American a hell of a lot longer than you have, I suspect, so I'd be a little careful what you choose to call other people you do not know or understand.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

On Feb. 15th anti-war protesters took over first Avenue from the 40's to the 70's which goes right past my bf's home on the Upper East Side . I found them to be quite intrusive. We couldn't just sit at home and watch a movie or listen to music because of the noise of the celebrity's speeches. We also couldn't go out because it was too crowded. When they finally dispersed, they left an incredible mess and graffiti reading "Stop Bush War" on stores and buildings and awnings. They destroyed private property.

Today they have taken over Herald Square which is on the West Side. Personally, I think that this protest is worse because we are at war. As lovelyivy wrote, "We are AT war." Protests won't make a difference now.

KillarneyRose, there will always be people who are rude and don't know when to keep their mouths shut. It's unfortunate that a child and a pregnant wife of a reservist have to be subjected to that. A teacher and a nurse ought to know better than to say those things. The men and women in the military are brave, and they and their family members ought to be respected.

[RUgreek]

Personally I support the war, with some reservations. Even with that, I don't think the anti-war protesters are mad at the soldiers like in Vietnam, they just protest the war and our government's choice to "bring it on."

I would have liked more international backing, but the French suck and finally others woke up and understood that. Would have been really cool if Powell or the government could have presented some clear concrete proof of Iraq's violations, like Stevenson did back in the 60's for the Cuban missile crisis. And it probably would have been wonderful to see the citizens of this country stand up and support the ones that are risking and giving their lives to preserve our freedom and liberty. I know I don't have what it takes to pick up a gun and protect this land, but I sure am all hell glad there are others out there with the courage to do it.

I'm for peace after the war, but this is peace movement is not exactly like the ones years ago. I think people today are so bored that they have nothing better to do than to whine and bitch whenever the opportunity arises. The very first day after we started the conflict, there was already some huge rallies going on cities, it's like they were excited and waited for the opportunity to have a march.

My opinion, if you're against the war, you're protesting the liberation of the Iraqi people. You can hate this government all you want, and I'll support everyone's free speech, but I don't think the anti-war side really understands the situation over there. They're all just a bunch of tree-hugging hippies (j/k - south park plug )


- RUgreek

P.S. It just really tears me up inside that Canada is not supporting us; those 15 troops really would have been helpful. By the way, don't we own that part of North America??

[DeltaSigStan]

Originally posted by RUgreek
P.S. It just really tears me up inside that Canada is not supporting us; those 15 troops really would have been helpful. By the way, don't we own that part of North America??

No we just mooch off of them

[tkitty99]

I am proud of the soldiers who are sacrificing their lives.

And while others choose to protest the war, I would like to acknowledge the efforts of these brave men and women!

TKitty

Many are called but few are chosen.....................

[ZZ-kai-]

In response to any and all who may have found my choice of words harmful, distasteful, offending...etc., get over it. I do not believe that Anti-War protesters are Anti-American, in fact I do not remember typing this in this OPEN forum. lovelyivy84, that was meant for you. This is an OPEN forum, and quite frankly, this discussion is great. There has been more hostility on GreekChat when people bicker whether Phi Mu is "cooler" than Chi Omega, or if Phi Delt is "neater" than Sigma Chi.

DeltAlum, just because you are like 65 and I am not, does not make you any more "experienced" than me. I don't need to serve in a war to understand them, and if you have served in a war, may god bless you and I thank you personally. Why? Because your actions in that war have lead to the free society that we all live in today, and it allows me to walk hand in hand with my fiancé next to me, not behind me. Again, thank you. But, don't try to knock me down because of my opinions either, that would be hypocrisy.

Once again, we are AT war - not going to, or thinking about war. We need to support our troops, support the actions of our Government and all that they believe, and stand behind them as a nation to show Iraq (and all other evils) that we are united. George Bush would not lead us into something for shits-and-giggles.

This is a war, there will be body bags, there will be deaths and sadly that is how it is. Deal with it.

Lastly, George Dubya did not take that Marines life the other night. Yes, I feel sorrow for his family and his father, but that man CHOSE to join the military and fight for his country....And I thank him for it.

I am Pro- American