Buying the house back from LCAP

spartanmoose · #1 03-21-2007, 03:21 PM

Here at Gamma Omicron,(Michigan State) LCAP has owned our house since 1993. We are making some great steps in a positive direction and feel that LCAP is just holding us back.

This saturday I have a meeting with the Alumni board and this will be one of the biggest issues on our agenda.

I was wondering if any chapter out there has bought their house back, and if they did, I would like to know some pointers. This seems like a big hill to climb, but it for sure needs to be done.

Matthew Moose
High Rho
ro 2140

GammaZeta · #2 03-21-2007, 03:46 PM

Umm...

I'll try to put this the nicest way possible; get ready to grab your ankles.

I PM'd you Moose.

Tom Earp · #3 03-21-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartanmoose

Here at Gamma Omicron,(Michigan State) LCAP has owned our house since 1993. We are making some great steps in a positive direction and feel that LCAP is just holding us back.

This saturday I have a meeting with the Alumni board and this will be one of the biggest issues on our agenda.

I was wondering if any chapter out there has bought their house back, and if they did, I would like to know some pointers. This seems like a big hill to climb, but it for sure needs to be done.

Matthew Moose
High Rho
ro 2140

LCAP is like any institution when it comes to property.

Find out what the payoff is and go from their. If you need to get a loan, also have that information for pay off.

LCAP is a lease holder of trust, not a captive of property.

If they fight it, then find out why. Find out who is fighting it and why.

Ducks in a row. LXA is not in the business of owning property but as I said, it is supposed to be in trust for the Chapter.

Please let us know what the status is!

GammaZeta · #4 03-21-2007, 04:56 PM

Respectfully disagree with you on every single point you brought up Tom.

Tom Earp · #5 03-21-2007, 05:40 PM

And why?

Each situation is going to be different isn't it?

GammaZeta · #6 03-21-2007, 06:10 PM

Well, no Tom, each situation is not that different.

I am curious, has LCAP ever sold back a piece of property?

First of all, it was made very clear to me and my brothers on several different occassions that LCAP is a business, and although LCAP does have Lambda Chi Alpha in it's name, that it is in no way associated with the fraternity.

With that in mind, LCAP needs to make money. There are salaries and expenses to be paid.

If the house that Moose mentioned is profitable, or will be in the future, why would LCAP sell it?

Now LCAP claims to not be associated with LXA, that brotherhood isn't brought into it, yadda yadda yadda. But amazingly, LCAP is directly tied in with operations at HQ when it feels it is convenient. HQ can have a much tighter grip over a chapter if LCAP owns the residence.

See, LCAP will ALWAYS do what is best for LCAP, not the chapter. I can't really blame them for that either. On paper, it is a good theory. In reality, it doesn't work. Sure, a self-sustaining organization to provide housing accomodations for LXA chapters sounds great. But it is not the reality.

Pretty soon, you have maintenance costs. A chapter goes under. Taxes go up. A new staff member is added. Travel is more expensive. Some people don't pay rent. There is a legal dispute with attorney fees. Heating costs skyrocket. They can't fill all the rooms. There was an accient at a property and insurance goes up. I can go on and on. What happens is LCAP, which ideally started out as non-profit, etc., soon has to make up costs. So now the focus becomes less on helping a chapter and more on becoming viable. Staff members don't work for free, and I'm sure HQ doesn't have money to burn.

I don't blame LCAP or the staff. The staff members have families and have to put clothes on their kids backs.

I blame the system itself. What SHOULD have happened was to have a property management company come in to run the property. Leave the LXA part out of the whole equation.

Now, what is the motivation for LCAP selling back Moose's house? If it is profitable, why sell? If it is not, will LCAP take the loss? Nope.

Now, with the economic part out of the picture, LCAP selling the house would give them less of an influence on a chapter. In many instances, a house can make or break a chapter. LCAP and HQ can now put restrictions, quotas, rules, regulations, goals and other factors to directly tell a chapter how it should be run. The chapter loses any and all independence once the house is run by LCAP.

I'm not saying LCAP is a bad idea, just that it needs to be re-evaluated and reformed.

Tom Earp · #7 03-22-2007, 02:31 PM

I am not sure, but LCAP owned the Arkansas Un. house and rented it until the Zeta could be re established. I would hope there is someone on site who could confirm if the Zeta got the house back under their control.

The Un. Mo. house was taken over and finally sold. The Zeta at the moment is renting the SX house until they return to campus. Then, who knows?

I do not know for sure if LCAP is a major money making group, but caretakers of property until the time that the Zeta can take over control

At one time, Zeta Houses were signed over to IHQ in case something happened to said Zeta. That has since long gone by the wayside yeras back. IHQ is not in the overall business of owning property, but as I said a care taker position

GammaZeta · #8 03-22-2007, 03:19 PM

See Tom, I just don't agree with you on the "caretaker" aspect.

They may have started out with that intention, but as you can see through the examples that you provided, it has evolved.

I would love to tell you everything going on with Gamma Zeta, but it is still a few more months until I file with the court.

EM1843 · #9 03-22-2007, 04:05 PM

Shocker! You don't agree, well that was enough to change my views. Seriousy Gamma, you're in law school you should be able to come up with a better argument than that. LCAP screwed you, we heard that story already but there were too many details left our for me to really agree with your story. I'm not sure if LCAP would sell a property back, but I have to assume that like any other property owner there is a price.

GammaZeta · #10 03-22-2007, 04:17 PM

Em, I am disagreeing with the "caretaker" part of Tom's argument.

From my experiences, the way LCAP is setup, and from what was posted on here, I do not believe LCAP is in the "caretaker" role anymore.

I am saying that they have evolved. LCAP probably started out as "caretaker", but soon evolved into an organization that needed to maintain fiscal viability, which in turn made the "caretaker" role obsolete.

In my previous post, I pointed out that the financial aspect of LCAP forced it to leave it's caretaker role behind.

Moose's chapter really can't talk to LCAP as if they are in a caretaker role and simply want to run their house again.

EM, I would love to talk to you over the phone soon about the legal web that is now Gamma Zeta, illegally operating corporations, the actual title of GZ and so on. You would probably find it interesting.

PM me if you want to talk. I would be more than willing to fill you in on everything, but with pending legal action, it wouldn't be appropriate on this board.

Tom Earp · #11 03-23-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Em, I am disagreeing with the "caretaker" part of Tom's argument.

From my experiences, the way LCAP is setup, and from what was posted on here, I do not believe LCAP is in the "caretaker" role anymore.

I am saying that they have evolved. LCAP probably started out as "caretaker", but soon evolved into an organization that needed to maintain fiscal viability, which in turn made the "caretaker" role obsolete.

In my previous post, I pointed out that the financial aspect of LCAP forced it to leave it's caretaker role behind.

Moose's chapter really can't talk to LCAP as if they are in a caretaker role and simply want to run their house again.

EM, I would love to talk to you over the phone soon about the legal web that is now Gamma Zeta, illegally operating corporations, the actual title of GZ and so on. You would probably find it interesting.

PM me if you want to talk. I would be more than willing to fill you in on everything, but with pending legal action, it wouldn't be appropriate on this board.

I suggest that someone contact IHQ and find out the true facts first.

GammaZeta I do know the true facts about how your house was turned over to IHQ and the Chapter was closed but I will not divulge where I got them from. It is in print in minutes for the GHZ!

If you take umbridge to my "Caretaker" view, I would be in hopes that someone on site can fill us in!

Moose, have the situation checked out by your Zeta and let us know if you can!

GammaZeta · #12 03-23-2007, 02:43 PM

No Tom that is incorrect.

The chapter house of Gamma Zeta is still in possession of LCAP, not HQ. Check it out at www.hampshiredeeds.com.

Also, the chapter was NOT closed. There was no disciplinary action taken, there was nothing from HQ, we never had our charter pulled. What happened was that due to several factors in regards to the chapter house (which I've already talked about in length), everyone but 2 brothers decided to move out of it.

The rent was astronomical, the conditions horrible, lack of assistance from the landlord, thefts and stolen property and so on. That is why we moved out.

We could have continued to operate as a fraternity if we wanted to without the house, or rented another house. But it was determined by the chapter that we would cease operation.

Maybe I can clarify the "caretaker" aspect as I view it. I don't view it as being a caretaker of the property for the CHAPTER (the current LXA's at the university) and the chapter's interests, but as a caretaker for the property representing the FRATERNAL and LCAP interests.

I think that the caretaker role that is currently portrayed is one of looking 10 and 20 years down the road and not of the current chapter. I'm not saying its bad or good. We've closed down a lot of smaller chapters. Why? We are in a rebuilding phase. The smaller chapters are sacrificed in hopes of focusing on the larger.

So, it is possible that LCAP may not have the interests of the chapter at heart if it conflicts with the general fraternity.

And Tom, I think you may be confused, the GHZ officially closed the chapter after we moved out and disbanded.

Tom Earp · #13 03-24-2007, 03:01 PM

That was just an over view as LCAP is part of IHQ.

Since no one has emailed IHQ, I did and am going to wait to see what I hear back. If not, I will ask another person at IHQ.

Maybe this will settle the discussion.

GammaZeta · #14 03-24-2007, 05:40 PM

Well Tom, I think you will get the answer that puts HQ and LCAP in the best light, even though it may not be the correct or true answer.

Sure, LCAP will say they are the caretaker for the chapter, and so on. But car salesmen always say they only want what is best for you. Ever buy life insurance? Do you really think the insurance salesmen has YOUR interest in mind?

Plain and simple. If there is a decision that has to be made by LCAP that will either benefit the chapter, or benefit HQ, but not both, who do you think LCAP is going to go with?

PiLambda1 · #15 03-25-2007, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Well Tom, I think you will get the answer that puts HQ and LCAP in the best light, even though it may not be the correct or true answer.

Sure, LCAP will say they are the caretaker for the chapter, and so on. But car salesmen always say they only want what is best for you. Ever buy life insurance? Do you really think the insurance salesmen has YOUR interest in mind?

Plain and simple. If there is a decision that has to be made by LCAP that will either benefit the chapter, or benefit HQ, but not both, who do you think LCAP is going to go with?

Faith...