Supreme Court Decision: Limiting Racial Diversity in Public Schools

[AKA2D '91]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070628/...s_schools_race


Is this an area of concern? Regression?

[NiaX]

I had a lovely thought I had posted then my page blinked out... basically I was questioning the reasoning for the case.... cause there are certain parameters in place at JCPS to give SOMEWHAT of a balance at each school....and if the lady wants to go above and beyond the parameters in place...I dunno what to tell her...

[SummerChild]

I think that the majority in this case, in deciding that race could not be a factor in bussing or whatever the school is doing with the race info to try to have a mixed composition of races in the schools, really misses what some would consider to have been the reason that Brown v. Board of Education was needed in the first place.

I guess that it goes back to what one thinks was the problem during the pre-Brown era from the time of Plessy v. Ferguson in the first place. Either one can think that: 1) the problem was that AA children felt bad b/c they didn't have "others" in class with them OR 2) AA didn't have the resources b/c they didn't have "others" in class with them b/c the "others" were going to get all the resources.

The majority takes a very superficial look at the issue in my opinion. In my opinion, the majority is basically just playing a game. They are using the (somewhat flawed) reasoning that Brown was all about not focusing on race (in that case, to keep kids apart). The point of Brown, in my opinion, was the reasoning that was clearly presented in Brown: don't treat kids differently financially or else they won't be able to be on equal footing with everyone else.

Applying the latter (true) logic behind the Brown decision, the current court would have, in my opinion, come out differently. They would have realized the inherent difficulties and shortcomings in our society and admitted that if those kids get separated into separate schools again, then as in the days before Brown, the AA kids will likely suffer while the "others" will get the resources.

The court fails to admit that the problem is not diversity or lack of diversity. It's about having access to FINANCIAL RESOURCES. When will America stop being so egocentric as to think that AA kids would feel bad if they did not have "others" in their classes and that Mr. Brown was suing so that his kids could experience diversity (which necessarily assumes that the AA kids did not feel that they were valuable or worthy unless they were amongst "others"). That viewpoint is silling and insulting. Plain and simply.

The true problem and the true reason for Brown is this: unless the poor kids go where the rich kids go, nobody will care about whether the poor kids have books or not. In fact, even when they go to the same school, nobody really cares. It's just that the poor kids can then get good books and resources b/c *the school system has no choice - b/c they fully intend to give the books and resources to the rich kids who sit next to the poor kids, so the poor kids get it by default.*

Brown was not about Mr. Luther King's I Have a Dream speech where they just wanted all kids to go to school together b/c the rainbow coalition would look good or seem nice. Brown was about FINANCIAL RESOURCES and the fact that the AA were not and would continue to not get the FINANCIAL RESOURCES unless they went to school where the resources were - with the White kids.

I don't believe that Mr. Brown would have ever brought the lawsuit on his daughter's behalf if she had all of the resources that she needed in her school near her home. Do you?

The Justices are playing a game with this one. I think that Justice Breyer saw it as well in his "irony" comment.

What do you guys think?

SC

Originally Posted by AKA2D '91

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070628/...s_schools_race


Is this an area of concern? Regression?

[Conskeeted7]

I totally see where you are coming from, Summerchild. I agree that an important point is being overlooked. It's not about having diverse school populations simply to have Black and White children sit next to each other. It's about having access to the resources that can provide a more equal education. That has less to do with race and more about household income and socio-economic status, in my opinion.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Conskeeted7

I totally see where you are coming from, Summerchild. I agree that an important point is being overlooked. It's not about having diverse school populations simply to have Black and White children sit next to each other. It's about having access to the resources that can provide a more equal education. That has less to do with race and more about household income and socio-economic status, in my opinion.

Not to intrude on your thread, but do you have any off the wall idea-solutions? I think this is a really interesting topic and I'd love to keep the ideas flowing.

[Jody]

Summerchild

Brown vs. Board of Education signaled the end of forced segregation. The lawsuit was originally brought because Brown couldn't go to the school in her neighborhood because she was black. She was forced to go a school outisde her neighborhood based solely on the color of her skin.

Part of the problem was that since all black children were forced to go to the same school, irrespective of where they lived, the school had less than steller resources. Forced busing was a means to ensure that school resources were equally distributed.

I would encourage everyone to really understand all the underlying issues in this case, namely, a black girl, couldn't go to the school closest to her (like next door) BECAUSE she was black.

Legal scholars, how can people look up the original case? I so often see discussions on this Board spiral out of control because sometimes people based their opinions on flawed information. Granted, they could have the same comments irrespective of the factual data, but still, they should at least be clear about the basic facts underscoring the issue.

[SummerChild]

Hi Soror,
I read the case while I was in lawschool. You are right that I have mixed up the facts as to where the child was going to a segregated school.

Shinerbock asked about solutions. I think that one solution might be to divide up all of the educational resources for a state and give a certain dollar amount per child. Give the same dollar amount for each child.

That way, kids are not receiving inferior books, facilities, etc. according to how much money their parents pay in taxes in a particular neighborhood. It's fair to the kids. The only problem is that that's not really fair to the parents the have to pay the taxes.

It seems to me that such a system would, however, incentivize the rich to either get all kids more $$ per kid or communities may become more economically diverse because there would be less incentive to move to a very expensive neighborhood when your kid will not have resources that are any better than the inner city kid's neighborhood.

The rich people who don't like it can then just pull their kids out and place them in private school if they want ... but the inner city kids will STILL get a decent amount of $$ per kid, right?

Teachers and people familiar with school finance, would that solution work?

Originally Posted by Jody

Summerchild

Brown vs. Board of Education signaled the end of forced segregation. The lawsuit was originally brought because Brown couldn't go to the school in her neighborhood because she was black. She was forced to go a school outisde her neighborhood based solely on the color of her skin.

Part of the problem was that since all black children were forced to go to the same school, irrespective of where they lived, the school had less than steller resources. Forced busing was a means to ensure that school resources were equally distributed.

I would encourage everyone to really understand all the underlying issues in this case, namely, a black girl, couldn't go to the school closest to her (like next door) BECAUSE she was black.

Legal scholars, how can people look up the original case? I so often see discussions on this Board spiral out of control because sometimes people based their opinions on flawed information. Granted, they could have the same comments irrespective of the factual data, but still, they should at least be clear about the basic facts underscoring the issue.

[Conskeeted7]

Shinerbock - I think that the solution comes from recognizing the true problem. And, in my opinion, it has nothing to do with race. It's all about economics.

I was educated in a school system that was majority Black. So, race had nothing to do with one school being better than any other. However, there were vast differences in the schools based on the neighborhoods. The resources were simply not available to the students in the poor neighborhoods.

For example, we had computers in the classroom since at least 4th grade (I went to a k-8). We also had a golf team, tennis team, and annual trips that required passports. We had new school books every year, a huge gym and auditorium and just a pretty school building in general.

My mom was a guidance counselor in a low income area and the school was using books I'd used in 5th grade for their 7th grade class. There weren't enough desks for all of the students. The gym didn't even have nets in the basketball hoops. There were only jump ropes and basketballs. Those students weren't given an opportunity to excel. Those that did well were still not doing what their peers across the city were doing. The standard of excellence was unrealistically low, setting these children up for failure.

This was all in the same school district. If we had been forced to 'share the wealth' there wouldn't have been just 1 or 2 good schools in the district. We all could have gone to good schools. So, my solution is equal funding and opportunity to all schools within a district. If there are programs or classes offered at one school but not another, allow students to be bussed half days for them. Just give them the access. It's unfair to expect students at lesser performing schools to succeed when we're not giving them the same tools as those who are succeeding.

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by Conskeeted7

I totally see where you are coming from, Summerchild. I agree that an important point is being overlooked. It's not about having diverse school populations simply to have Black and White children sit next to each other. It's about having access to the resources that can provide a more equal education. That has less to do with race and more about household income and socio-economic status, in my opinion.

This post and the post before it are what I have been saying for years! My black child will not learn better or more if they sit next to a white child. However, given the same resources (financial, networking, exposure, access to information, etc.) each child will reach their individual potential at whatever level it happens to be.

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Not to intrude on your thread, but do you have any off the wall idea-solutions? I think this is a really interesting topic and I'd love to keep the ideas flowing.

Real simple. Level the playing field by:

1) Mandating that the federal, state and local governments must provide the exact same resources to all schools; any additional can be infused directly from the parents whose children attend the school.

2) sending children to their neighborhood public schools (maybe just through middle school) so that they can be close to familiar resources. All public high schools in a district should compete for students by test scores and magnet programs to allow exposure outside of a child's own community.

In neither of these recommendations should race become a factor. In fact, if these are implemented, race will no longer need to be a factor. So what if the lower grades are non-diverse? The schools will reflect the neighborhoods! As for the high schools competing, I think that diversity will take care of itself in this proposed type of environment.