disaffiliated and looking

[Allmixedup311]

hi i am new here, but have a question i was hoping you guys could answer

i transfered to a new school and immediately rush started i went in blindly and pledged a fraternity. a number of things happened during pledging that i didn't agree with or like, but each time i was convinced to stick it out. however the week after getting intiated i couldn't take it any longer and disaffiliated.

now the thing is that was last fall, and now as fall is approaching again, and i have a better gauge on things, i want to rush again.

i have a letter from the fraternity i joined saying i am disaffiliated and all of that

if i rush again what are the chances on getting a bid do you guys think, what would you think if a rushee came through and explained this to you? i have friends in all three of the fraternities i am looking at (sae, sigep, and kappa sigma) and they have all encouraged me to rush but does anyone know the overal policies of these mentioned fraternities regarding a situation such as mine?

[steve1869]

Kappa Sigma WONT under any circumstances do it....ever

[stufield]

Steve 1869, don't be so categorically sure of yourself in saying that Kappa Sigma won't "under any circumstances ... ever" initiate someone who is an initiate ofanother fraternity. That is simply not the case.

Official Kappa Sigma policy is that it will not initiate a man who has been initiated by another fraternity. SAE and Sig Ep have the same policy. So allmixedup311 is out of luck if he stays at the same school.

However, I personally know two fellows who are Kappa Sig initiates of two different chapters who were previously initiates of other fraternities at other schools prior to transferring to the schools at which they pledged and were subsequently initiated into Kappa Sigma. Of course, both of them lied about never having been a member of another fraternity when they joined Kappa Sigma. But those were by no means the first two times that that has ever happened, and I'm quite sure that it has happened since.

So the correct response to allmixedup311's query is that Kappa Sigma will not KNOWINGLY intiate a man who is an initiate of another fraternity. But to say that Kappa Sigma will not UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES initiate a man who is an initiate of another fratenity is simply NOT correct. Uner the circumstances of not knowing that the person has previosuly been initiated by another fraternity, it has initiated and will contineu to initiate such persons .... as, of course, have and will every other fraternity. There is no "clearing house" by which every single candidate for initiation into every chapter of any one fraternity is vetted prior to his initiation to ensure that he has not already been initiated into another fraternity. Each fraternity is almost totally dependent upon the honesty of the candidate in that particular regard.

What follows doesn't relate specicially to allmixedup311's situation, but you may be interested to know that there have been many instances of large numbers of the same chapter having being initiated into two fraternities, even quite recently. I believe that the members of the Beta Theta Pi chapter at Texas Tech in the early 1990's were one such group. The Betas were very weak at Texas Tech at the time and in severe danger of closing; in fact, the chapter might actually have closed. At the same time, however, another fraterny (I believe it was Pi Kappa Phi) closed its large TexasTech chapter for disciplinary reasons. Beta Theta Pi than 'raided' the group, and rather than disintegrate, they decided, or mnay of their number decided, to join the Betas. So the Betas saved their chapter with previously initiated mebers of another fraternity, and ahve been quite strong at Texas Tech ever since.

A rather similar thing just happened a coupe of years ago at California State University, Chico, commonly known as Chico State, a school witha large and succesful Greek system at which Kappa Sigma for some reason or other has never had a chapter and is conspicuously absent. Pi Kappa Phi closed its chapter there for disciplinary reasons. Some of the members of that chapter subsequently formed a group that Sigma Pi accepted as a colony. That colony became a Sigma Pi chapter in late 2003 or early 2004.

In the early years of the Greek system, many fraterniy memebrs were initiates of more than one fraternity. Fraternities routinely raided members, and whole chapters, of other groups. And members,and even whole chapters, of a particular fraternity broke away from that fraternity and joined another.

In fact, Sigma Chi was founded at Miami University by six members of the 12 member Kappa chapter of Delta Kappa Epsilon at the time who broke away from Deke over an internal chapter matter and formed their own group, which they initially called Sigma Phi, not knowing that a fraternity of that name already existed.

Reversing the tables, the charter members of the Deke chapterat Western Reserve College had been members of the Beta chapter there who broke away to start the Deke chapter there in 1868. Similarly, over half the charter members of Deke's chapter at the University of Minnesota were already members of the Phi Delt chapter at that school.

There are numerous other such instances, but as I see that I have gotten way off the original topic, I'll refrain from mentioning any others.

To the best of my knowledgfe, no Kappa Sigma chapter was ever formed by breakaway members of another fratenity, although I would not guarantee that to be an absolute fact. Even if it had happened, the Fratenity may never have publicly acknowledged it to be the case.

[James]

Thanks stufield for the hostorical perspective.

I think it was only in 1999 that the general fraternity added the rule officially to the constitution and by-laws that previously initaies of other NIC groups may not be initated into Kappa Sigma.

Is there apolicy around release letters though? If the person is released of their obligation they are n longer an initiate correct?

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by James
Thanks stufield for the hostorical perspective.

I think it was only in 1999 that the general fraternity added the rule officially to the constitution and by-laws that previously initaies of other NIC groups may not be initated into Kappa Sigma.

Is there apolicy around release letters though? If the person is released of their obligation they are n longer an initiate correct?

That's something I've thought of as well - I know the stance on previous initiates is strong, and I only assumed that it went for those who got release letters as well.

I also didn't realize that the rule was only added in '99. For some reason I thought it was on the books for much longer than that.

[Allmixedup311]

does anyone happen to know if that policy applies to people with release letters?

[RedHot]

So how does the NPC work with verifying someone as a previous initiate? This stuff fascinates me. So you could lie and be in more than 1 GLO?

[James]

Yes. Why would anyone think to check? And how would we easily?

Originally posted by RedHot
So how does the NPC work with verifying someone as a previous initiate? This stuff fascinates me. So you could lie and be in more than 1 GLO?

[ksigcanuck]

We had a (now-Brother) rushee this past fall who had pledged Sig Ep but dropped before initiation at another school. Just to verify this, I (GMC at the time) called Executive Director Mic Wilson at HQ to verify this information.

He gave the Executive Director of Sigma Phi Epsilon a call to find out the status of the rushee in their Fraternity, and when it came up as he had pledged and dropped, Mic gave me a call back to let me know.

The whole process took about 2 hours... 10 minute phone call... 2 hours of waiting... 2 minute phone call.

We pledged him that night.

So make the structure of the Fraternity work for you and your Chapter. That is why it is there.

And the requirement of no initiate of another Fraternity being initiated has been around FAR longer than 1999, even if it hasnt been in writing. Locals may have been the only exception.

AEKDB
Mike

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by ksigcanuck
We had a (now-Brother) rushee this past fall who had pledged Sig Ep but dropped before initiation at another school. Just to verify this, I (GMC at the time) called Executive Director Mic Wilson at HQ to verify this information.

He gave the Executive Director of Sigma Phi Epsilon a call to find out the status of the rushee in their Fraternity, and when it came up as he had pledged and dropped, Mic gave me a call back to let me know.

The whole process took about 2 hours... 10 minute phone call... 2 hours of waiting... 2 minute phone call.

We pledged him that night.

So make the structure of the Fraternity work for you and your Chapter. That is why it is there.

And the requirement of no initiate of another Fraternity being initiated has been around FAR longer than 1999, even if it hasnt been in writing. Locals may have been the only exception.

AEKDB
Mike

Sounds like you did the right thing; I've also had good luck in my dealings with HQ. Whenever I've called needing something, I've received a response, either the same day or only a couple of days later. That goes down the chain, from Executive Director to the general staff.

It's possible to lie, but it's just as possible that a chapter will check up with HQ and get the real story.

AEKDB
Collin