Dual Membership?

[SoTrue1920]

Hi folks -

A question: would it be possible for a person to hold membership in an NPHC group and in an NPC/NIC/IFC group at the same time? I know it's not possible to have membership in two NPHC groups at once, and I know it's not allowed to have membership in two NPC/NIC/IFC groups at once.

I know for some folks this is a heretical proposition, but I'm just curious.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally posted by SoTrue1920
Hi folks -
A question: would it be possible for a person to hold membership in an NPHC group and in an NPC/NIC/IFC group at the same time? I know it's not possible to have membership in two NPHC groups at once, and I know it's not allowed to have membership in two NPC/NIC/IFC groups at once.
I know for some folks this is a heretical proposition, but I'm just curious.

SoTrue1920,
Yes, you're right, just as someone cannot be initiated into 2 NPHC groups, one is not permitted to be initated into 2 NPC groups.

Everything that I have ever read in "NPC lore" states that a woman can only be initiated into 1 of the 26 groups in the NPC. It doesn't actually say anything explicitly about the 4 women's NPHC groups.
This is what it says from the Panhellenic compact of the NPC (excerpt):
"A woman who is or who has ever been an initiated member of an existing NPC fraternity shall not be eligible for membership in another NPC fraternity. (1).

I have never read anything that says you cannot be initiated to an NPC sorority, and then be initiated additionally into an NPHC group (or vice versa). However, I would certainly say that this practice would be frowned upon, even if it is "technically" permissible from an NPC standpoint.

Lots of women are in an NPC group + a music fraternity, and lots of women are in an NPHC group + a music fraternity but I think that's considered a "different" scenario and not seen as being disloyal to your social GLO.

From an NPC standpoint, I guess I would have to say that it's technically "permissible", since the NPHC 4 women's orgs are not among the NPC's 26 members, but to be initiated into "1 from the Conference and one from the Council" would probably be frowned upon (and perceived as being disloyal). So, while technically permissible (at least from an NPC standpoint) would be frowned upon, or as you put it, a "heretical proposition". As an NPHC member, what do you think? Am I right?

[Senusret I]

From what I have seen, only dual membership in honor societies, service fraternities/sororities, and professional fraternities are allowed in NPHC organizations.

Technically, NPHC and NPC/NIC organizations are all social fraternities and sororities, and you can't be in two socials.

I SUPPOSE one could pledge one org, then transfer and pledge another without telling.

[SoTrue1920]

CutiePie2000 - you're right, something like this would probably be frowned upon by both councils and probably isn't a good idea. It's interesting though, that there are no regulations in place that specifically prevent it. I wonder why that is.

Dardenr: NPHC organizations are community service organizations, not specifically social organizations (even though we have social aspects). Because we're looked upon as service organizations, that's one of the reasons why I wondered whether a person would be allowed to hold membership in an NPC/NIC organization.

[Sweetums]

Is there any master database of membership of all fraternities and sororities? If someone transferred from one school to another and pledge another sorority, is there anyone that they could be found out?

[carnation]

I understand that NPC keeps a database of names and social security numbers.

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by SoTrue1920
Dardenr: NPHC organizations are community service organizations, not specifically social organizations (even though we have social aspects). Because we're looked upon as service organizations, that's one of the reasons why I wondered whether a person would be allowed to hold membership in an NPC/NIC organization.

SoTrue, while I understand that NPHC members are taught that they are community service organizations, with all due respect, that is not true. This has nothing to do with any personal judgment of the work of the NPHC, but the law.

Title IX, passed in 1972 I believe, was passed to ensure equity between men and women in various aspects, including collegiate athletics, forcing colleges to have equal resources allocated to both men's and women's sports. For example, it is not equitable for the men's basketball program to be Division I while the women's basketball program is Division III.

Title IX also ensures that student organizations on campuses receiving federal funds of any kind (usually interpreted to include federal financial aid) are equal to both men and women. This means that if there is a Home Economics club, it must be open to both men and women.

There are many organizations that are exempt from Title IX, allowing them to remain single-gendered, such as youth movement's like the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and Boy's Nation. Also exempt from Title IX are SOCIAL Fraternities and Sororities.

Service Fraternities and Sororities are NOT exempt from Title IX, therefore, they may not exclude applicants on the basis of gender. Examples of this are Alpha Phi Omega, the National Service Fraternity, coed since 1976, and Gamma Sigma Sigma Sorority, which has a handful of male members.

Therefore, if any organization on the NPHC was a service organization, then they could not bar membership from someone of the opposite gender.

I apologize for sounding like a know-it-all, but being a Brother of Alpha Phi Omega, I have to be well versed on what is "service" and what is "social" in the eyes of the law.

I wonder, though. . .I know that Zeta Phi Beta and Phi Beta Sigma are separate entities. Since you are constitutionally bound, however, I wonder if Zeta and Sigma could be the only NPHC groups legally considered service organizations. Only Zeta and Sigma would apply in this case because if a man wanted to be a Zeta, Sigma exists as the legal alternative.

It's like if a woman wanted to play basketball in college. .. legally, she would HAVE to try out for the men's team if there was no women's team. But if a women's team existed, the men's team has the right to turn her away.

[12dn94dst]

SoTrue1920, as far as Delta is concerned, one is not allowed to hold membership in Delta and an NPC group.

dardenr, Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. is a PRIVATE service organization. Because we are a PRIVATE organization, we are able to restrict membership. If I'm not mistaken, this is also true for the other organizations in the NPHC. Additionally, we are on college campuses because the SCHOOLS ALLOW US THERE. I'm sure we would all agree that if any organization would jeopardize a school's federal funding, modifications would be made.

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by dardenr



Title IX also ensures that student organizations on campuses receiving federal funds of any kind (usually interpreted to include federal financial aid) are equal to both men and women. This means that if there is a Home Economics club, it must be open to both men and women.

Question: have you thoroughly researched how organizations, the NPHC in general and Alpha Kappa Alpha, Inc. specifically generates funds?




I'm sure when you have done this thorough research, you will understand how "we" operate.

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by 12dn94dst
dardenr, Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. is a PRIVATE service organization. Because we are a PRIVATE organization, we are able to restrict membership. If I'm not mistaken, this is also true for the other organizations in the NPHC. Additionally, we are on college campuses because the SCHOOLS ALLOW US THERE. I'm sure we would all agree that if any organization would jeopardize a school's federal funding, modifications would be made.

With all due respect, all Fraternities and Sororities are private organizations, no matter if they are social or service oriented. Each organization is allowed by its school to operate there, and each organization is subject to the rules of the school. That's not in question.

It is not in question that each organization has a service-oriented thrust; I agree to that. The question is whether NPHC organizations are service fraternities and sororities or not. I argue that if they were, membership would be open to both men and women, because service fraternities and sororities are not exempt from Title IX.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91



Question: have you thoroughly researched how organizations, the NPHC in general and Alpha Kappa Alpha, Inc. specifically generates funds?




I'm sure when you have done this thorough research, you will understand how "we" operate.

Yeah, but if the University at which you operate lets you use any resources at all (web space, meeting facilities, administrative support) you are considered to be partially funded by the university.

[AKA2D '91]

One should do THOROUGH research (exclusive of the internet) and find out OFFICIALLY how one is able to operate in the manner that they do.

Officially does not mean, he says/she says, what I believe to be the truth, what I understand this to mean, how I interpret A,B,C or D, or my organization (non-NPHC) operates like this, therefore, you must also...

[12dn94dst]

Isn't it great how people who are not a member of certain organizations can tell the members of those organization not only what they are or are not, but also how they're run.

NOW, the question IS can a member of an NPC/NIC/IFC org be a member of an NPHC group at the same time, ie WHAT ARE THE RULES REGARDING THIS.

The question IS NOT whether NPHC groups are service/social and/or subject to Title IX.

Things would be just fine on this board if some folks would keep their mouths closed if they don't know ALL ASPECTS of a situation.

[FuzzieAlum]

Well, whether or not any of the orgs have rules strictly to this effect, would you as a member of a NPHC, NPC or NIC group even consider pledging someone who was a member or another one of those groups? I don't think many of us would - for any number of reasons. If nothing else, being a good member of any of these groups puts a lot of constraint on a member's time, and it would be difficult to live up to both obligations.

But, technically, Iotas are members of NIC and NPHC both! So if you wanted to twist words around, you could say they joined an NIC group and an NPHC group.

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
But, technically, Iotas are members of NIC and NPHC both! So if you wanted to twist words around, you could say they joined an NIC group and an NPHC group.

Ya know what Fuzzie, that's a good point. Kappa Alpha Psi is also a member of both the NPHC & NIC. But I'd also wager these two groups are the exception.