Need some help here

[ΣKΞFounder]

We have decided to break away from the school (Alpha Chapter, not Beta Chapter), and are no longer pursuing being affiliated. Rather, we are pushing to go through the town.

*We no longer need any help, this is just an update thread for those wanting some questions asked*

[33girl]

I'm guessing it is your school that is actually forcing you to join IFC, not IFC itself. (I'd wager that the other IFC fraternities could care less if you joined or not since you are appealing to a different sort of student.) Unfortunately, yes, the school can do this.

If you are operating as a purely social fraternity, co-ed or not, you should not allow your members to join other social fraternities.

[ΣKΞFounder]

It was not the school, it was an IFC member at a meeting. And this fraternity is for promoting Greek life and academics. If a member joins us and their GPA is not in the Nationals standards we still take them, if later on after we've helped them improved we have no problem with them wanting to join another group. This being said, we'd hope members would be loyal and not want to co-join. But, we don't want to stop them from joining a National either if they decided later on that they wanted to.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ΣKΞFounder

It was not the school, it was an IFC member at a meeting.

You need to figure out exactly what's going on. Based on your other posts (and on your FB page), you're in the process now of being approved by the school, or have just gotten approval. Is the IFC member speaking on behalf of the school? On behalf of IFC? Saying what he thinks ought to happen? Just confused?

Speaking of confusion:

And this fraternity is for promoting Greek life and academics. If a member joins us and their GPA is not in the Nationals standards we still take them, if later on after we've helped them improved we have no problem with them wanting to join another group.

I'm a little confused. This sounds like you see yourself as something other than a social GLO, but in your earlier posts, you said:

Originally Posted by ΣKΞFounder

I am one of the founders of Sigma Kappa Xi. We are a brand new local fraternity here at Hanover College . . . . Why did I and a few other people create a local? Well, long story short we did not find a sorority here that we fit into, so we created one for everyone in our situation! After talking with Greek life and chatting with several fellow students it was also determined that we should be the first ever co-ed here at Hanover! Needless to say we are very excited and are looking forward to becoming the newest Greek member at Hanover.

Originally Posted by ΣKΞFounder

. . . I do assure you that I have been in close works with Greek life and with the student body here, and from the numbers we already have along with the support of Greek life, our winter rush is looking better than the four nationals sororities and five national fraternities here on campus Well we'll be close in rush numbers with Sigma Chi from the looks of it at the moment. But I have nothing against any of the chapters here, just did not feel like I belonged in any of them. And I discovered other people felt the same way, so we got together and hatched this idea to start a local.

It sounds to me like you are founding a social, co-ed fraternity that will compete with (in terms of rush) the IFC fraternities on your campus and seek to be viewed as comperable. Under those circumstances, it seems to me to be quite reasonable to think you should belong to the IFC.

Granted, IFCs are typically mostly made up of fraterniities that belong to the NIC, but that is not always the case. One of the national fraternities on your campus (and in its IFC) is not a member of the NIC or, so far as I know, of any other umbrella conference. My fraternity is not a member of the NIC but is part of the IFC on many campuses.

Nor is the co-ed aspect necessarily determinative. There are (NIC) fraternities that allow their chapters to be co-ed, and so far as I know, those chapters are usually if not always IFC members.

Just based on your posts, it sounds like maybe you need to be clear (in your own minds and with your Greek Life office) about exactly what kind of organization you'll be and how you'll fit in with the rest of the campus, and talk with your GL office about what that means IFC-wise.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Nor is the co-ed aspect necessarily determinative. There are (NIC) fraternities that allow their chapters to be co-ed, and so far as I know, those chapters are usually if not always IFC

We actually have a chapter that makes a point of always trying to elect a woman for IFC representative.

[ΣKΞFounder]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

You need to figure out exactly what's going on. Based on your other posts (and on your FB page), you're in the process now of being approved by the school, or have just gotten approval. Is the IFC member speaking on behalf of the school? On behalf of IFC? Saying what he thinks ought to happen? Just confused?

Speaking of confusion:

I'm a little confused. This sounds like you see yourself as something other than a social GLO, but in your earlier posts, you said:

It sounds to me like you are founding a social, co-ed fraternity that will compete with (in terms of rush) the IFC fraternities on your campus and seek to be viewed as comperable. Under those circumstances, it seems to me to be quite reasonable to think you should belong to the IFC.

Granted, IFCs are typically mostly made up of fraterniities that belong to the NIC, but that is not always the case. One of the national fraternities on your campus (and in its IFC) is not a member of the NIC or, so far as I know, of any other umbrella conference. My fraternity is not a member of the NIC but is part of the IFC on many campuses.

Nor is the co-ed aspect necessarily determinative. There are (NIC) fraternities that allow their chapters to be co-ed, and so far as I know, those chapters are usually if not always IFC members.

Just based on your posts, it sounds like maybe you need to be clear (in your own minds and with your Greek Life office) about exactly what kind of organization you'll be and how you'll fit in with the rest of the campus, and talk with your GL office about what that means IFC-wise.

Well we at first were having no problems out of the school/other Greeks....but then we had a change in Greek life and things went down hill. So, we basically said we were no longer interested in being affiliated with the college and are instead pursuing recognition through the town. We are basically just waiting for our Inc. papers now so we can turn them in with our request.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ΣKΞFounder

Well we at first were having no problems out of the school/other Greeks....but then we had a change in Greek life and things went down hill. So, we basically said we were no longer interested in being affiliated with the college and are instead pursuing recognition through the town. We are basically just waiting for our Inc. papers now so we can turn them in with our request.

Wait, what? You're seeking recognition from the town? Why? And why would a town recognize a fraternity?

[Kevin]

OP, I'm trying to stand in your shoes here. I was part of the beginning of a colony of a major national NIC affiliated group (as evidenced in my signature below). I recall not having clue #1 as to how we were supposed to interact with IFC (even though we were members by default and design), let alone with the community as a whole.

No offense, but it appears you guys are really flying blind on this thing. It seems really unclear what you are offering. How is it different from say... Circle K or Rotary?

I just don't get what you're trying to be here.

[ΣKΞFounder]

The only place we are applying with the town is, is at Alpha chapter. Why? Because Greek life refused to let us have our constitution the way it is. They wanted to make us change what made us, us. And in doing so, be exactly like every other Greek member on campus. So, we said no. Instead, we will be a Fraternity that has members from the college campuses located near each other. Our other chapter, is fully recognized as a Greek member and was not forced to change the constitution. Our prospective Gamma colony also does not have to change the constitution. From this point on, we will only be opening chapters that do no have to alter the constitution in order to "be like everyone else". The only reason this chapter will be opening through the town is because we already have members and need a place to go so we can meet and continue to recruit. I do know how to interact with IFC and tried, but we DO NOT want to change what makes us, us, and refuse to. There is a lot more to the story, but this is the simplest version.

[ΣKΞFounder]

Originally Posted by Kevin

OP, I'm trying to stand in your shoes here. I was part of the beginning of a colony of a major national NIC affiliated group (as evidenced in my signature below). I recall not having clue #1 as to how we were supposed to interact with IFC (even though we were members by default and design), let alone with the community as a whole.

No offense, but it appears you guys are really flying blind on this thing. It seems really unclear what you are offering. How is it different from say... Circle K or Rotary?

I just don't get what you're trying to be here.

And, we are not a store and do not sell anything. We are a Multicultural Fraternity that is joining the NMGC in two years (when we have the Gamma up and running). We have our constitution, we have our rules, we have our rituals, we have our beliefs, we have our academic stance, and we have our ties with other Greeks like Phi Sigma Chi and others in NY that we openly talk with and they openly help us. Our situation at the Alpha chapter is just, a little special. IFC refused to listen to us and what we believed in, so we refused to conform. But, at our other chapter, no problem at all. Welcomed with open arms and helping hands. Just the way it goes sometimes.

[ΣKΞFounder]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Wait, what? You're seeking recognition from the town? Why? And why would a town recognize a fraternity?

Towns and cities recognize Greeks as long as they are helping the town/city I have one in my home town as a matter of fact that is full of wonderful people who give out scholarships every year to the high schools in the area. Sometimes, life throws you lemons and you make lemonade. This is just with Alpha chapter, no other chapter. Beta Chapter is recognized and accepted without changes to our constitution as will the Gamma Colony if it is opened up. It has been decided that from this point on, only new chapters that the core of our constitution is not changed will be able to open. Here, we already have members and people wanting to join. So since we are not affiliated with the college, we need a place to go for meetings and so we can recruit. It is the only way for the Alphas now. But, if one day the college decides to not force the changing of our core values, then yes, we would be glad to be affiliated at the college.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ΣKΞFounder

And, we are not a store and do not sell anything.

That's not quite accurate. You have to sell membership as something which is desirable. To be able to do that, you need a why. Here's a good TED talk on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMOlfsR7SMQ

That aside, when dealing with municipalities, at least in my home state, YMMV. Some may recognize you as a civic organization. Others, such as the town we have our chapter home in, require Greek orgs to have chapter facilities which are held to the same safety code as multifamily housing. We must, for example, have fire suppression systems installed and at least two ways out of every bedroom and an ADA compliant suite. We also have to be within a certain geographic zone and must be recognized by the school.

Other towns are probably a lot more laissez-faire. If I was in your shoes, I'd get in touch with the town's code enforcement people, explain your situation (probably not a good idea to volunteer your address) and see what they say.

If it comes down to having to make a pitch to some sort of governing body, I'd sure want to be able to answer the "why" question as well as be able to sell yourselves.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ΣKΞFounder

Towns and cities recognize Greeks as long as they are helping the town/city I have one in my home town as a matter of fact that is full of wonderful people who give out scholarships every year to the high schools in the area.

Of course, every town has civic organizations, and every town has groups—civic organizations or otherwise—that the town allows to use town property as meeting space, as long as certain criteria are met. That's nothing new.

But I've never heard of a town "recognizing" a fraternity or sorority in the same way that a college or university "recognizes" student groups. That's the concept that's throwing me—"recognition," which suggests some level of approval and oversight, permission to function even, not just equal access to facilities.

Originally Posted by Kevin

That aside, when dealing with municipalities, at least in my home state, YMMV. Some may recognize you as a civic organization. Others, such as the town we have our chapter home in, require Greek orgs to have chapter facilities which are held to the same safety code as multifamily housing. We must, for example, have fire suppression systems installed and at least two ways out of every bedroom and an ADA compliant suite. We also have to be within a certain geographic zone and must be recognized by the school.

But that's not recognition of a fraternity per se. That's a housing code. The town isn't approving the operation of the chapter, just the building its members live in.

And if the reason they're going to the town is meeting space, I'm guessing there's no house involved.

[Kevin]

Yeah, I'm not clear as to whether he's looking to house anyone. I mean if he wants to go rent a suburban storefront and have that be a meeting place, I doubt he'd have any problems doing that.

If, on the other hand, he wants to house 20 people and have meeting space, that's a whole different ball of wax. I don't think he's being very clear as to what this alpha chapter even is... it's a student organization... but it's not. It's a fraternity, but they don't want to be recognized as one by the school.

And in my city, for Greek houses to fall under the Greek House exception in the city code, we have to live within certain boundaries and have to be recognized by the school.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That's not quite accurate. You have to sell membership as something which is desirable.

Lol. I'm thinking this person thought you were talking about THIS Circle K: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_K

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Anyway, there seem to be a lot of elements missing from this story, so it comes off very confusing. I don't have any experience with a local council requesting changes to constitutions -- I've heard of "if you want to join, you need to do X, Y, and Z" but never "You're required to change this thing or you aren't real Greeks" -- so that seems very odd to me. Also, I don't get this "registering with the town" business.

OP -- Do you all have an advisor? As Kevin said, it seems like you all may be confused about 1) what exactly you want your organization to be viewed as and 2) how to go about getting yourselves there. Maybe someone with some Greek or university experience can help steer you in the right direction.

Good luck.