Questions...

[DG515]

I've got a technical question......
I was discussing with someone about an event that happened and they mentioned that they was called into an "emergancy" meeting with honor board (sometimes referred to by other GLO's as "standards") held in a darkened room. I asked them if there were people taking minutes and they replied "I don't recall that there was....I'm almost 100% certian that there wasn't" They told me that therein, they were spoken to in a very condensending voice by some of the members of our honor board....unfortunatly that's about all the details they could give out.....

This person that I was speaking with told me that that was considered hazing....I had never really thought of that in that way, but the more I think about it, the more I think it could be considered hazing....they expressed that they were confused due to the fact that they had been informed of the reasons they were having the meeting a mere 20 minutes before hand. Then she was taken into the meeting held in a darkened room and belittled. For what it's worth she is an initated member, and has been for over a year now.

I don't know...what are you $0.02??? Even if it is hazing, how could she handle it? If she was hazed, she was being hazed by the people that handle the problems that arise......it'd be like turning in a cop to themselves.....

Now I did post this in Hazing as well, BUT, i know that most people just check this forum and maybe their own GLO's, and I wanted to make sure people got a chance to weigh in.....

Greek Love and Mine
..::mandie::..

[hoosier]

By definition,you can't haze a member.

[CarolinaCutie]

The darkened room and the lack of minutes are your clues. Yes, I would consider it hazing. What to do about it is a tough situation though... I'd talk to your advisor- she may be able to help nip this type of thing in the bud.

[Stacekat]

I'm a Chapter Adviser, that is considered hazing. Regardless if the person is an initiated member or not! I would speak to the Risk Management Adviser or the Chapter Adviser. This can definately be handled internally.

Hope that helps

[tunatartare]

In the sense that we use it, hazing refers to anything, particularly anything is harmful, that anyone is forced to do, in order to become a part of a group, sports team, club, GLO, or whatnot.

In this episode that happened to your friend, she was clearly a part of the organization already since she was a part of the honor board, therefore it wasn't hazing. It may not have been right. The fact that minutes weren't taken and that it was held in a darkened room, implies that something weird was going on and should be looked into by your advisor.

In terms of the fact that it was an emergency meeting and that your friend was given about 20 minutes advanced notice, well I'm sorry to say but c'est la vie. This happens in life with everything. It can happen a lot in work with a boss saying that there's going to be an emergency meeting to work out a problem. What about before rush? If something goes wrong last minute and you need to call an emergency Greek Council or Sorority Council meeting? Is that hazing because you're trying to work things out so everything will be perfect?

Yes what happened to your friend may not have been 100% Kosher or ok, and may need to be discussed with their advisor, but I think that in this day and age we're too quick to cry hazing on anything that happens.

[adpiucf]

An initiated member is just as subject to be hazed as an uninitated member.

Basically, if you do something or have something done to you that you would be uncomfortable telling your parents, the university administration or the 6 o'clock news, then think twice before you do anything. Treat your members like adults. Adults don't take one another into darkened rooms and patronize each other with sweepingly dramatic overtones.

Why must these GLO's take their sense of ritualistic behavior one step too far into the realm of the ridiculous? Way too many wanna-be drama queens out there. And it only hurts our collective image. Love the maturity.

[Stacekat]

Here is how AOII defines hazing:

"Any intentional or reckless act, on or off the property of any higher educational institution or fraternity premises, which is directed at any other student, that endangers or is reasonably calculated or designed to endanger the mental or physical health or safety of that student, or which induces or coerces a student to endanger such student's mental or physical health or safety, including but not limited to, subjecting such student to physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, or ridicule."

We do not define hazing as just being something that can happen to a new member, which is why the definition we use says "student". I'm not saying what happened in the specific instance above is hazing. But it is something that should be looked into. It is something I would want to know about so that no one in the chapter is feeling unappreciated.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by DaisyKLP
In this episode that happened to your friend, she was clearly a part of the organization already since she was a part of the honor board, therefore it wasn't hazing.

[Tom Earp]

This defenitly sounds like hazing no matter the definition.

If it for a disciplinary situation, you mention (Exec) (mine), honor, or Standards Board, this should have been done in the open not in a dark room and should have been recorded.

There can be a real problem with this, especially if it involves a new member associate or even an active member.

[PsychTau]

While it definitely sounds and feels like a hazing "overtone" to me....I think the initiatied member would get more done by questioning whether or not this happened by the book (rather than crying "hazing"). Sounds like some procedures weren't followed. For example, I'm sure it's written somewhere that the person being brought up before standards is to receive a 24 hour and/or written notice (something like that). Also, minutes should have been taken, and probably an adviser should have been there. The darkened room is just silly....too dramatic (unless there is some sort of prescribed, written ritual for this....but I doubt it).

I would have that person check the procedure, make a written statement of what occured, and talk with either the chapter adviser or other appropriate adviser (Standards Adviser/Risk Management Adviser). You don't want members exaggerating their "power" in the group...that is one way for the "hazing mentality" to take root.

PsychTau

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by hoosier
By definition,you can't haze a member.

Uhhhh yes you can. If that were the case, sororities who wanted to haze would just wait until that pledge class was initiated and then haze them.

[MooseGirl]

Could be hazing, but as stated, there are other ways to deal with the situation such as contacting the advisor, etc.

And yes members can be hazed if they feel or are made to believe their membership is being threatened (such as in fron of a standards or honor board)

From the NPC site:
Hazing is defined as any action or situation with or without consent which recklessly, intentionally or unintentionally endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student, or creates risk of injury, or causes discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule or which willfully destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with, or as a condition for continued membership in a chapter or colony of an NPC member fraternity.

[DG515]

Ok......not explained..... lol

From what I understand, I dont think it was the intention of the honor board to hold the "meeting" in the dark room, it just happened to be next door to where everyone else was at...it wasn't like it was "oooh, lets take so and so to a dark room"....I still think it was inappropriate, as I'm seeing most of you agree, and I've been talking to her about different choices she can take...however, our advisor is a pain in the royal butt and is good for little else than showing up once in a while and causing some havok (and she's our advisor because they can't find anyone else that can do it and commit the time)......

Through discussion, there's been another question reached....we have the right to appeal decisions, but it goes up another level to a regional member......However, I know that our regional person is horrendously slow at going through stuff and sometimes doesn't even answer problems at all........and when relating to filing an appeal, I can guarentee you our advisor isn't going to go above her superiors head, because she wants whatevers been passed in HB to stay (reguardless of the situation)......So I told her she needs to contact the other members of the regional team (not just specifically the one that deals with this particular issue)....any suggestions?

[Stacekat]

wow, that's too bad about your adviser position. I know your Regional Adviser is slow, but maybe you could speed her up by calling her instead of emailing her. If that doesn't work, I would start calling other regional advisers. We have a Collegiate Network Specialist (CNS) and her "boss" is the Collegiat Network Director (CND). She is in charge of all of the Network Specialists. I hope that wasn't too confusing. But if I had problems with my CNS I would go directly to the CND.

As far as your chapter adviser situation, maybe you can get a list from your headquarters of alumnae that are within a 40 mile radius or something and send out a mailer under the pretense of an Alumnae Appreciation Sisterhood Event and then try to recruit more advisers

[ChaosDST]

Originally posted by DG515
I've got a technical question......
I was discussing with someone about an event that happened and they mentioned that they was called into an "emergancy" meeting with honor board (sometimes referred to by other GLO's as "standards") held in a darkened room. I asked them if there were people taking minutes and they replied "I don't recall that there was....I'm almost 100% certian that there wasn't" They told me that therein, they were spoken to in a very condensending voice by some of the members of our honor board....unfortunatly that's about all the details they could give out.....

This situation sounds suspect, but....

It also sounds like a last minute "lemon squeeze" where people may have had some issues and decide to air them in a certain (perhaps not the most appropriate) venue. "Lemon squeezes" CAN be hostile environments and I can imagine that it being last minute and held in a darkened room adds to the mystery and hostility, of it all. The person should let these individuals know that the atmosphere was unnecessaringly condescending, etc.

I think the whole "this is hazing" route isn't a good idea (even if it seems pretty obvious, to some). The first step is for him/her to approach those in question. There are times when members (not members to pledges) aren't too brotherly or sisterly to each other for various reasons, which can suck, sometimes. However, "hazing" is such a big label that can be attached to ANYTHING that makes ANYONE feel uneasy or uncomfortable. I think automatically taking the "hazing" route with such situations isn't a good idea.