Abortion vs Dead Beat Dads

[RHOyal-Silence]

what's up greek and non greek family.

women have a legal right to abort a baby for any reason. sometimes the reason may be that the lady simply did not "plan" to get pregnant and does not want a baby right now.

my question to you all is how is that any different from a man who simply did not "plan" to have kids at the time and did not want them so he walked away from them.

the mother does not want a child so she can legally abort. the father does not want the child, but what can he do without being labled "dead beet dad"

just a question to make you think.

yip out!!

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by RHOyal-Silence:
what's up greek and non greek family.

women have a legal right to abort a baby for any reason. sometimes the reason may be that the lady simply did not "plan" to get pregnant and does not want a baby right now.

my question to you all is how is that any different from a man who simply did not "plan" to have kids at the time and did not want them so he walked away from them.

the mother does not want a child so she can legally abort. the father does not want the child, but what can he do without being labled "dead beet dad"

just a question to make you think.

yip out!!

And a GOOD ONE at that!!!

[PrettySqueaky]

Well in most states he can give up his parental rights.

It's easier than most people think. If a father agrees to give up his rights and there's someone willing to take his place (like the mother's new boyfriend, spouse, lesbian partner, his parents or her parents) it can be done. And all he has to do is go through the court system state his case and pay the court cost.

I know that wasn't the answer you were looking for, but legally that's what he can do. I think it's a shitty way out, and no matter what this guy is still a father(biologically.)

But what do you think when the guy wants the baby and the girl has the abortion. I know that's touching Roe-vs-Wade but my sophomore year at State this guy went around bragging and handing out cigars, because his girl was pregnant. Come to find out she had an abortion. She didn't tell him. The girl she went with did.

Now that's something to think about.

[PrettySqueaky]

Personally, I don't believe in abortion unless the child's or mother's health is at-risk. I know too many people who use this as a form of birth-control.

I had a close friend that wanted me to go with her while she had one. I told her no. And afterwards she was depressed. She crys every year around the time of the abortion, when she found out she was pregnant and the supposed due date.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a coldhearted person. But the only reason why she had an abortion is because she couldn't tell her parents. A couple of weeks after she had the abortion she found out her younger sister was pregnant.

My point is if you can't do the time, don't the crime. Meaning if you can't deal with the consequences whether it's protected or not...don't have sex.

[RHOyal-Silence]

a freind and i was talking about the same thing. can a man do anything legally if he wants the child but the mother wants an abortion? i know it's the woman's body, but it is also the man's baby.

[PrettySqueaky]

Originally posted by RHOyal-Silence:
a freind and i was talking about the same thing. can a man do anything legally if he wants the child but the mother wants an abortion? i know it's the woman's body, but it is also the man's baby.

That's the whole Roe-vs-Wade Debate. Like I stated before I don't believe in abortion and I have a wonderful son, whom everybody adores including his father(who went overboard and bought nikes every month until he realized how fast a baby grows.)

But my thing is this. Why can't the girl carry the baby then give the baby to the guy signing over her parental rights. Who knows maybe it's shame...the fact she doesn't want to be pregnant. But thank god I've never been in that situation and I hope that I never will.

Children are a gift of God. Some people aren't lucky enough to have those gifts. So I don't understand all the drama.

[blu_theatrics]

Originally posted by PrettySqueaky:

But my thing is this. Why can't the girl carry the baby then give the baby to the guy signing over her parental rights. Who knows maybe it's shame...the fact she doesn't want to be pregnant. But thank god I've never been in that situation and I hope that I never will.

Children are a gift of God. Some people aren't lucky enough to have those gifts. So I don't understand all the drama.

I fully agree with what you are saying. Why can't you just carry the child to term and the give it up.

I don't believe in abortions acept for health reason, and I'm a little leary on that part too.

But I know that a child is a child. For you to say that a nine month old growing inside of me is less of a person than the nine month old two second after birth is ridiculous.

And besides, I don't believ anyone has ever determined exactly what trimester the fetus "grows a soul" and until they do, I see it as murder.

As far as the father not having a right, I know that that is a Roev. Wade desicion, but I fully believe that abortion like adoption(to some extent) should be something that should be signed off by both parties.

But then again, that's just my opinion

[blu_theatrics]

Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:
Who is affected when a woman aborts a child? At most, herself, the child and the father of the child. Who is affected when a man decides to walk away from his children? Our entire society.

As long as society thinks that baby's momma's and baby's daddy's are an acceptable substitute for husbands and wives, things aren't going to change.

Well said

[MIDWESTDIVA]

This is an interesting question. I have been thinking about it for several days. I am pro-choice, but I am not interested in sparking a Roe vs. Wade debate either. I do believe that aborting and walking away from a child are in the same category. However, the aftereffects are very different. Who is affected when a woman aborts a child? At most, herself, the child and the father of the child. Who is affected when a man decides to walk away from his children? Our entire society. Prison cells are full of men who did not have fathers in the home. A tremendous burden has been placed on African American society in particular, because of absentee fathers. All of the responsibility is laid on the mother's shoulders. Some women are able to successfully raise boys into men. But many aren't. What if she didn't have a father when she was growing up? If the example was not set for her, and there is no man in the home, how can she be both mother and father to her child? I believe that this is why the penal system claims so many of our young men, and the welfare system claims so many of our young women.

This whole situation has become a vicious cycle. As long as society thinks that baby's momma's and baby's daddy's are an acceptable substitute for husbands and wives, things aren't going to change.

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"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on." ~Robert Frost



[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited January 11, 2001).]

[BlueReign]

MidWest Diva, I couldn't agree with you more.

[SoloRHO]

Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:
Who is affected when a woman aborts a child? At most, herself, the child and the father of the child. Who is affected when a man decides to walk away from his children? Our entire society.

I was going to stay away from this topic cuz I thinks its such a sensitive one, but here goes...
I want to play Devil's Advocate for just one minute... the quote above by MidWestDiva states that the only people affected when a woman has an abortion are herself, the father, and the child.
But how can we be so sure of that. Who knows what that child may grow to be. He/She could grow to be one of our greatest leaders, someone that could save us from pollution or fight racism, or create a cure for Cancer or AIDS, etc... In the future, they could turn out to be someone who would fight the good fight for whats right in our world.
In this way, society as a whole MIGHT BE affected by abortion. There's always a chance... Just as there's always a chance that the child that's not aborted and raised by a single parent may turn out to be a great leader or worker also... Not just another prison number. None of us really knows what God has in store for us.
I mean, have you ever thought that maybe the reason why we don't have too many TRUE LEADERS in our communities is because we've killed them before they were born?... just something to think about.

PEACE
SoloRHO
PS, Remember, for the most part, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here...

[This message has been edited by SoloRHO (edited January 12, 2001).]

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by PrettySqueaky:
Well in most states he can give up his parental rights.

It's easier than most people think. If a father agrees to give up his rights and there's someone willing to take his place (like the mother's new boyfriend, spouse, lesbian partner, his parents or her parents) it can be done. And all he has to do is go through the court system state his case and pay the court cost.

I know that wasn't the answer you were looking for, but legally that's what he can do. I think it's a shitty way out, and no matter what this guy is still a father(biologically.)

But what do you think when the guy wants the baby and the girl has the abortion. I know that's touching Roe-vs-Wade but my sophomore year at State this guy went around bragging and handing out cigars, because his girl was pregnant. Come to find out she had an abortion. She didn't tell him. The girl she went with did.

Now that's something to think about.

Suppose the man tells the girl that he has enough children and he aint trying to have any more. He sets out his condoms; and while he's in the bathroom, the girl punctures his condom because she wants a "pretty baby with 'good'hair". Unaware of what happens, he does his thing and finds out later that she is pregnant. She has this baby-and NO BOYFRIEND willing to pay child support. By law, he is stuck with paying child support.

Is THIS fair(just)?

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by blu_theatrics:
I fully agree with what you are saying. Why can't you just carry the child to term and the give it up.

I don't believe in abortions acept for health reason, and I'm a little leary on that part too.

But I know that a child is a child. For you to say that a nine month old growing inside of me is less of a person than the nine month old two second after birth is ridiculous.

And besides, I don't believ anyone has ever determined exactly what trimester the fetus "grows a soul" and until they do, I see it as murder.

As far as the father not having a right, I know that that is a Roev. Wade desicion, but I fully believe that abortion like adoption(to some extent) should be something that should be signed off by both parties.

But then again, that's just my opinion

What does it cost to have a baby today? $8000.00? That's odd; that's approximately the amount to have a fairly inexpensive funeral too.

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by SoloRHO:
I want to play Devil's Advocate for just one minute... the quote above by MidWestDiva states that the only people affected when a woman has an abortion are herself, the father, and the child.
But how can we be so sure of that. Who knows what that child may grow to be. He/She could grow to be one of our greatest leaders, someone that could save us from pollution or fight racism, or create a cure for Cancer or AIDS, etc... In the future, they could turn out to be someone who would fight the good fight for whats right in our world.
In this way, society as a whole MIGHT BE affected by abortion. There's always a chance... Just as there's always a chance that the child that's not aborted and raised by a single parent may turn out to be a great leader or worker also... Not just another prison number. None of us really knows what God has in store for us.
I mean, have you ever thought that maybe the reason why we don't have too many TRUE LEADERS in our communities is because we've killed them before they were born?... just something to think about.

PEACE
SoloRHO
PS, Remember, for the most part, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here...

[This message has been edited by SoloRHO (edited January 12, 2001).]

Good point!

------------------
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on." ~Robert Frost



[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited January 12, 2001).]

[PrettySqueaky]

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
Suppose the man tells the girl that he has enough children and he aint trying to have any more. He sets out his condoms; and while he's in the bathroom, the girl punctures his condom because she wants a "pretty baby with 'good'hair". Unaware of what happens, he does his thing and finds out later that she is pregnant. She has this baby-and NO BOYFRIEND willing to pay child support. By law, he is stuck with paying child support.

Is THIS fair(just)?

That comment about good hair and a pretty baby was a flashback. That's what someone told me a couple of weeks ago.

But to answer your question...If a guy tells a girl he has enough kids (with a S) and she still tries to get pregnant by him...well she's just a silly ass hoe. (Excuse my french, but she's stupid. He blatantly came out of his mouth said I've been around and as a result I have mad kids that I can't take care of. Well almost said that)

I don't think it's fair. And legally unless he gives up all rights there's nothing he can do, but fork up.

I'm partial to this whole debate on a guy paying child support. I don't think it should be court mandated (but in certain situations it's needed.) I feel as though if I guy doesn't want to support his child, well no one including the gov't should force him to. And as a woman I feel as though you shouldn't make him if the situation is like any we've been discussing.

This is a total tangent, but there are so many young girls out there that think "If I have his baby we will always be together!!!!" And they don't understand if Tiasha and Sha-nala already has his child and EsLawn is pregnant the same time you are..."How are you going to be together forever?"

I've read of too many situations in which the broad uses the money for other things besides the welfare of the child. Situations like that make me sick.

Not to put my business out here. But I told little man's dad if somethign were to happen to me or we were to ever fall out (again...I wanted a race car bed not train. let me stop tripping) make sure he saves every receipt from where he bought little man stuff. In NC they are so strict on child support. In some counties they can make the man pay back child support(including a large majority of the hospital bills and if she received welfare) from the day the child was conceived(not birth, but conception.)It's like as soon as I found out I was pregnant some of my friends were like hit him up for child support because their man didn't do such and such. Then they were like no wait until he graduates that way you can get backpay. My thing is I would rather for my child to have an emotional father around rather than a child support check.

I lost a lot of friends when they found out we were still friends and I wasn't trying to get his money. That's why I have no sympathy for anyone that tries to take and manipulate a guy just for child support. Notice the word is child...not maternal. Now mind you the support is supposed to help pay rent, food and etc. But I think most of it should go to clothes, diapers and etc first!!!! Why???? Because if you didn't have this baby your azz would still need a place to stay and food to eat.

Sorry this was so long, and I was jumping from tangent to tangent. It's just that I don't understand how a woman can trick a man into fatherhood, especially if it's just for child support. But this reminds me of something I was reading at school. It was in the athletic building. It was an article on how pretty women were sleeping with athletes in the NFL and NBA hoping to get pregnant to draw child support checks. What do ya'll think about that.