Three LSAT questions

[pbear19]

My apologies if these were addressed in the long thread, I skimmed it but didn't see them.

1. For those of you who took a few (or several) practice tests, how close were your scores on them to your actual LSAT score?

2. What is a realistic expectation for point improvement by practicing for the LSAT?

3. Any idea what score range is considered good enough to be seriously considered for a full ride scholarship?

I have been thinking about law school for a while, and have decided to take the LSAT to see how well I do. I am not planning to go to law school if I have to pay for it myself, I need to get a sizeable scholarship or full ride. I know that's not normal reasoning, but the reasons are my own and I don't plan to change my mind. I just took my first practice test as a baseline measure, and based on the schools I'm looking at I'd guess I have a fairly good chance for a scholarship at one, and a marginal at best chance at the other (based on their average student body scores). But I'm just guessing right now.

And, I know there is more to it than LSAT, but since that is the part I can now control (I am a few years removed from college, so my GPA isn't going to change), that's the part I am concentrating on.

At any rate, I figured you all would have some ideas.

[SigKapSweetie]

I got a 173, but I went to medical school, so I don't know how much help I can be. I did teach LSAT for Kaplan, though, so if you get stuck on something, feel free to PM me!

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by pbear19

My apologies if these were addressed in the long thread, I skimmed it but didn't see them.

1. For those of you who took a few (or several) practice tests, how close were your scores on them to your actual LSAT score?

2. What is a realistic expectation for point improvement by practicing for the LSAT?

3. Any idea what score range is considered good enough to be seriously considered for a full ride scholarship?

I have been thinking about law school for a while, and have decided to take the LSAT to see how well I do. I am not planning to go to law school if I have to pay for it myself, I need to get a sizeable scholarship or full ride. I know that's not normal reasoning, but the reasons are my own and I don't plan to change my mind. I just took my first practice test as a baseline measure, and based on the schools I'm looking at I'd guess I have a fairly good chance for a scholarship at one, and a marginal at best chance at the other (based on their average student body scores). But I'm just guessing right now.

And, I know there is more to it than LSAT, but since that is the part I can now control (I am a few years removed from college, so my GPA isn't going to change), that's the part I am concentrating on.

At any rate, I figured you all would have some ideas.

1. I took a number of practice tests, one every week for about a year before taking the LSATs. I didn't take a class, I just bought a few books on Amazon. My final practice test scores (for the month or so before I took the test) were within a point or two of my actual score.

2. I'm not sure about what a realistic expectation would be, as it depends on the person, how comfortable they are with tests, etc. I can tell you that my score went up 6 points from my first practice test to the actual test (although I scored a bit higher on my final practice tests than I did on the real thing). I'm not sure if that's typical or not, just my experience.

3. Your scholarship chances are going to depend a great deal on the schools involved, and your GPA. If you're talking a Tier 1 school, and you want a full ride, you should have an excellent GPA (most likely graduating with honors from your undergrad) and a high LSAT score. As you move through the tiers, that's going to change. From my own experience, I got a halfway decent scholarship to a mid-tier 2 school, but didn't get a whole lot from my current school (lower tier 1). That said, I go to a state school, and I get in-state tuition, so even with less financial aid I went with the cheapest option by far.

My best advice would be that there's a site (I can't remember the name of it) where users post their stats, and their success getting into different schools. A lot of times they'll post whatever scholarships they receive. That would probably be a good baseline. Or, you could call the schools that you're thinking of applying to, and see if you can get a general demographic of the students who received scholarships.

Good luck - full scholarships to law school are rare.

[DoubleTDG]

The LSAT website allows you to enter your GPA and your LSAT score and shows you how likely you are to get into all the ABA Law Schools. As for scholarships you should apply early to have the best chance to get them. I took the LSAT twice and improved a ton but that is not to be expected. I was told if you take it twice to expect a max of 10 points better, but you could do 10 points worse. I did 13 points better, but I was in the very first group with the new section and I had 3 sets of the new section. My last score was within 1 to 2 points of the scores on my practice tests.

[MandyPepperidge]

KSigkid is referring to the very addictive Law School Numbers.

Assuming you have a good GPA (a 3.5 or higher), you need a 165 or higher for the top tier of schools. (Unless you are an URM or a super-duper legacy.) I was told to take your SAT verbal score, drop the zero and then add a one in front of the number. That is roughly around where you should score.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by MandyPepperidge

KSigkid is referring to the very addictive Law School Numbers.

Assuming you have a good GPA (a 3.5 or higher), you need a 165 or higher for the top tier of schools. (Unless you are an URM or a super-duper legacy.) I was told to take your SAT verbal score, drop the zero and then add a one in front of the number. That is roughly around where you should score.

I hadn't heard that before - in that case, I should have done quite a bit better than I did on the LSATs, haha.

[pbear19]

Thanks all! Interesting about the SAT score. Unfortunately I fell asleep a couple times during the SAT verbal section, and scored a lot lower than I ought to have. Silly me for testing the morning after Homecoming.

I graduated in 2001 with a 3.62 GPA BA in Economics and German, minor in Spanish. I did the exact opposite of what most people do. My freshman year was fabulous, but my final year I was so burnt out I got two C's - I graduated with 184 credit hours! Since then I have corporate work experience and a decent amount of community service. I can't do anything about the 3.62, or about anything else up to this point, which is why I said I'm only focusing on the LSAT.

For the record, I know that the chances of getting even a 50% scholarship are exceedingly slim. But I don't think it will hurt me to try. If I don't score high enough to be considered, I won't be heartbroken. It's simply something I need to do for myself, just to see. My goal on the LSAT is to score at least 170, which I thought would be a good number to potentially be considered for scholarship. But, I don't know if that is high enough, which is why I was asking for input here.

Bottom line, I don't have high expectations, but I am excited about trying and giving it 100% just to see what happens.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by pbear19

Thanks all! Interesting about the SAT score. Unfortunately I fell asleep a couple times during the SAT verbal section, and scored a lot lower than I ought to have. Silly me for testing the morning after Homecoming.

I graduated in 2001 with a 3.62 GPA BA in Economics and German, minor in Spanish. I did the exact opposite of what most people do. My freshman year was fabulous, but my final year I was so burnt out I got two C's - I graduated with 184 credit hours! Since then I have corporate work experience and a decent amount of community service. I can't do anything about the 3.62, or about anything else up to this point, which is why I said I'm only focusing on the LSAT.

For the record, I know that the chances of getting even a 50% scholarship are exceedingly slim. But I don't think it will hurt me to try. If I don't score high enough to be considered, I won't be heartbroken. It's simply something I need to do for myself, just to see. My goal on the LSAT is to score at least 170, which I thought would be a good number to potentially be considered for scholarship. But, I don't know if that is high enough, which is why I was asking for input here.

Bottom line, I don't have high expectations, but I am excited about trying and giving it 100% just to see what happens.

The 3.62 will look good - how good, though, depends on where you got yoru degree. More competitive schools will get looked upon more favorably by the admissions people. The number of credits probably isn't going to matter - they mainly care about your grades, not how many classes you took. (that's not said to sound harsh, just the way it is) The work experience could help, as could the community service, as it could help round things out - but, GPA and LSAT scores are #1 and #1a in determining admissions, and make up a large majority of the decision.

That GPA, with a 170, could put you in good position with regards to scholarships.

One final word, and I don't mean this to sound patronizing or anything; if you are going to do law school, definitely make sure that it's the right choice. It's a ton of work, whether you go full time or go part time (like I do, while working full time). It's a lot of work and a lot of stress, with long hours of studying and writing. You're going to be surrounded by a lot of very intelligent people, and (depending on where you go), the environment could be incredibly competitive. It's really only worth it if it's something you absolutely want to do; otherwise you could find yourself burnt out very quickly. I've wanted to be a lawyer for a long time, and even I have gotten down on myself at times, questioning myself.

If it's what you truly want to do, good luck with the process, and definitely PM me if you have any questions along the way.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by MandyPepperidge

KSigkid is referring to the very addictive Law School Numbers.

Assuming you have a good GPA (a 3.5 or higher), you need a 165 or higher for the top tier of schools. (Unless you are an URM or a super-duper legacy.) I was told to take your SAT verbal score, drop the zero and then add a one in front of the number. That is roughly around where you should score.

That's absurd. I know a lot of people who got 750s+ and definitely did not get 175s+ or they wouldn't have been at school with me.

This depends so much on what type of school you are looking at and whether you fit what they are looking for. My boyfriend got several full rides to T1s with a 3.7 and a 165 - but this was in 2000 and law school admissions have gotten a lot more competitive. I got a full ride to a T3 with a 2.8 and a 163 but I was also a good fit for what the school was looking for and partial scholarships at a lot of T2s - but this was in 2005 and admissions have gotten even more competitive.

I'd shoot for a 165 at least - that should guarantee you some sort of money if not a full ride. Keep in mind, though, that even with a full ride you have to pay for living expenses - which for me ended up being almost $45,000 in loans!

Also, almost everyone scores much higher on practice tests - to get it as close as possible, take the test in an uncomfortable chair in a poorly lit room under exact timed conditions. I think I was averaging around 170 on practice tests, although that was so long ago I don't remember!

Feel free to PM me if you have more questions - I think I'm also listed on SisterLink as a resource for this type of stuff.

[DoubleTDG]

One thing I forgot to mention, I would suggest looking at the book Law School Confidential. It is full of advice for all steps of the the law school process.

[ASTalumna06]

First of all, your LSAT score is very important when it comes to applying to law schools. Everyone will have a different story about how it's weighted, and every school will look at them differently. But the fact is, those 4 hours could make or break you, depending on where you want to go to school. (Sorry if that sounds scary, but that's how it is! haha)

But... Practice, practice, practice!

In terms of how close your practice tests will be to how you actually do... that all depends. If you take a practice test, and then study for 6 months before the test, and then take another practice test, I'm sure your second score will be higher than the first and much closer to what your actual test score will be.

The fact is, the test isn't asking you factual questions... it's testing how you read, reason, analyze, and solve problems in a logical way. Because of that, I can pretty much guarantee that the practice tests you take aren't going to be a lot easier than the actual test. Essentially, your practice tests shortly before the actual test will give you a pretty good understanding of the range of where your final result will be.

And be prepared! And I don't mean with practicing... but before the test get a good night's sleep, eat breakfast and relax. The people that I talk to that do very well on the test are usually the ones who don't study for it at all the day beforehand (they've already had a year to study, I doubt another 8 hours will help). Go out with friends, read a book, watch a movie. Don't think about the test.

It's a lot of reading, a lot of thinking, and a lot of switching your mind from one thing to the next in a very short period of time. Don't freak out! :-D

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

That's absurd. I know a lot of people who got 750s+ and definitely did not get 175s+ or they wouldn't have been at school with me.

Haha...if that scoring thing were the case, maybe I'd be at the "other" law school in CT, the one in New Haven

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Haha...if that scoring thing were the case, maybe I'd be at the "other" law school in CT, the one in New Haven

Quinnipiac? If that were the case, I think I may have joined you there as well, bad college grades or not. I certainly would have made it to that "other" Catholic law school out in DC.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

Quinnipiac? If that were the case, I think I may have joined you there as well, bad college grades or not. I certainly would have made it to that "other" Catholic law school out in DC.

Haha, Quinnipiac is in Hamden, but close Although, I have to say, in all seriousness, they have an incredible career services department. They always get a pretty decent number of graduates into federal court and high state court clerkships. I wouldn't be surprised if their US News ranking goes up steadily for the next few years.

Just think, if only that scoring system worked, we may have been on our way to SCOTUS clerkships. Although, I'd guess we'd want to work for different Justices...

[pbear19]

Holy Jesus. Ok, I know that in the grand scheme of things this means absolutely nothing. But I am pretty pumped that I just scored a 178 on a practice test. I'm sure it's just a random fluke, and it might have been an 'easier' test in general for some reason, but it still feels pretty fabulous to see that number. Nothing like a big ego boost two weeks out!