Pledging: Doing a Disservice to All Alpha Men?

deleted

[Senusret I]

Hi there!

Are you an Alpha?

[libramunoz]

Clear--it sounds to me like you are "clearly" either a reject from Alpha or that you want to be one.
Why are you "questioning" Alpha? What does it have to do with you?

[Hoodini]

I think he does raise some legitimate concern which should be discussed by both aspirants and members of the fraternities/sororities involved (In this case, Alpha, but in general, I believe it can be open to other fraternities and sororities especially within the divine 9).

I'd rather have a forum where there was an open ( to a degree) discussion and complete intelligence. than close-minded greeks sweeping everything under the carpet.

Originally Posted by libramunoz

Clear--it sounds to me like you are "clearly" either a reject from Alpha or that you want to be one.
Why are you "questioning" Alpha? What does it have to do with you?

[Little32]

It is not a matter of being close-minded. It is a matter of what the appropriate forum for such conversations. It is a matter of whether he is "talking out the side of his neck."

Some stuff just ain't for non-members to discuss, not with any expectation of a response from members. Period.

[Hoodini]

Originally Posted by Little32

It is not a matter of being close-minded. It is a matter of what the appropriate forum for such conversations. It is a matter of whether he is "talking out the side of his neck."

Some stuff just ain't for non-members to discuss, not with any expectation of a response from members. Period.

Is it shame that makes members not discuss it or is it this close-mindedness I talk about that many greeks sweep under this carpet of "discretion"?

I think he has a valid point here and there (Clearm3) and I think he's wrong on some fronts. I think if greeks who can speak for themselves and are more comfortable in their skin (in this case thoughts and beliefs ) were to come out and discuss some of these things (not everything in detail, but at least touch base on some points)...it'd make life a lil easier on both sides.

Someone like this guy

[Little32]

Yes, well, I am happy that you think that.

[libramunoz]

Originally Posted by Hoodini

I think he does raise some legitimate concern which should be discussed by both aspirants and members of the fraternities/sororities involved (In this case, Alpha, but in general, I believe it can be open to other fraternities and sororities especially within the divine 9).

I'd rather have a forum where there was an open ( to a degree) discussion and complete intelligence. than close-minded greeks sweeping everything under the carpet.

When I said what I said had nothing to do with being a "closed-minded greek(s) sweeping everything under the carpet."
This person/sock/troll/lollygagger is making himself a nusicance for no reason and in his way of questioning, it would seem that the purpose for his/her/it's questions are to simply ask, "why wasn't I accepted by Alpha."
Usually when people ask such questions it's because they want to be a member of an organization that they weren't allowed to join and this is their only way of "vocally" complaining.
Now you say (or rather typed) that this is a "legitimate" question and is one that should be "raised" by both "aspirants and members of the Divine 9" and that let's me know that you aren't a member in of itself, and to quote Joan Crawford, "for reasons which are well known to them."

[Hoodini]

Wut point are to trying to drive with your last statement? You're trying to make me of as a person without a logical thinking brain...or u are in this "u aint greek ergo u aint shit" type of thinking?

I dont disagree that he may/may not be a troll...but that doesn't negate a few things he has raised herein...something that I know is been discussed a lot but no one can lodge their voice into without ign'ant name-calling and wut not.

Originally Posted by libramunoz

When I said what I said had nothing to do with being a "closed-minded greek(s) sweeping everything under the carpet."
This person/sock/troll/lollygagger is making himself a nusicance for no reason and in his way of questioning, it would seem that the purpose for his/her/it's questions are to simply ask, "why wasn't I accepted by Alpha."
Usually when people ask such questions it's because they want to be a member of an organization that they weren't allowed to join and this is their only way of "vocally" complaining.
Now you say (or rather typed) that this is a "legitimate" question and is one that should be "raised" by both "aspirants and members of the Divine 9" and that let's me know that you aren't a member in of itself, and to quote Joan Crawford, "for reasons which are well known to them."

[libramunoz]

Originally Posted by Hoodini

Wut point are to trying to drive with your last statement? You're trying to make me of as a person without a logical thinking brain...or u are in this "u aint greek ergo u aint shit" type of thinking?

I dont disagree that he may/may not be a troll...but that doesn't negate a few things he has raised herein...something that I know is been discussed a lot but no one can lodge their voice into without ign'ant name-calling and wut not.

First of all, your first statement, took a lot...and I mean a lot of reading between the lines to understand.
Secondly, if I wanted to say "u ain't greek ergo u ain't shit" I would have said it!
Thirdly, you're the one who said that you aren't a "person without a logical thinking brain" not me.
Fourthly, he/she/it didn't raise any points, only eyebrows, and one eyebrow at that.

This person wants to question something that they don't understand because it's NOT meant for them to understand...get it?!
But obviously you don't get it and that's why you're questioning/defending it.
Like I said before, a person who would write such nonsense is only doing so because it's their only way to "voice" their dissension and disagreement with Alpha. It's their way of questioning why they weren't allowed into Alpha "for reason which are well known to them." And it's beginning to sound like the same for you.

[Senusret I]

Alpha men know what an Alpha man is, what defines him, what his oath is. You have to right to question Alpha as much as you want, but no one from the fraternity is obligated to answer you.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by clearM3

Let me set the record straight. I made this thread not to get into an argument about my credibility to even ask this question. Even if I told you I was an Alpha, you couldn't verify it for sure; this is an internet forum, and we're all behind computer screens. The point is moot.

The opinion I made should be answered on its own merits, and not the merits of the person asking it. No one has provided a single reason as to why anything I've said is wrong. Instead almost everyone (save for Hoodini) has rejected to answer the question and opted to just question whether I have the right to even ask. That's not aiding in higher intellectual status of all, that's just being elitist.

If what I said in the first post is misguided, can someone do good and lift the Ignorance off my shoulders? I'd like to hear what you have to say.

First off, identities can be verified, even on the internet.

You're trying to argue something that's not up for debate. If you're being told this is not the appropriate medium to discuss the topics that are being brought up, that should be the end of it. It doesn't matter if you don't like it -- that's how it is.

You shouldn't be concerning yourself with an organization's policies and procedures if you're not a member yourself.

[Hoodini]

Originally Posted by clearM3

Let me set the record straight. I made this thread not to get into an argument about my credibility to even ask this question. Even if I told you I was an Alpha, you couldn't verify it for sure; this is an internet forum, and we're all behind computer screens. The point is moot.

The opinion I made should be answered on its own merits, and not the merits of the person asking it. No one has provided a single reason as to why anything I've said is wrong. Instead almost everyone (save for Hoodini) has rejected to answer the question and opted to just question whether I have the right to even ask. That's not aiding in higher intellectual status of all, that's just being elitist.

If what I said in the first post is misguided, can someone do good and lift the Ignorance off my shoulders? I'd like to hear what you have to say.

There are several things you missing and I don't think any greek would "lift the ignorance from your shoulders" on a public internet forum.

I understand your concerns and grievances, but there are different more discrete ways to seek your answers. That's just the way it is. I understand one of your concerns and that's a valid argument you brought up (about signing a contract saying one thing but turning around and doing the opposite) but unfortunately that's a question you'd have to seek from a member of the organisation you're concerned about.

My opinion wasnt sought, so I can't come on here and tell you what mine is, so the best advice I have for you at this time is to seek someone either on this forum or in person (real life) who can answer your question (at least to a degree which you can understand it) since its very apparent this isnt the right medium.

Good luck though.

[Phrozen1ne]

Originally Posted by clearM3

This does not apply to men who pledged when pledging was actually allowed by the national organization.

This applies to the Alpha men who went on line, who went through pledging otherwise known as hazing, or has engaged in hazing other aspirants.

What is the definition of an Alpha man?

According to the national organization, the vision for Alpha Phi Alpha is to "stimulate the ambition of its members; to prepare them for the greatest usefulness in the causes of humanity, freedom, and dignity of the individual; to encourage the highest and noblest form of manhood; and to aid down-trodden humanity in its efforts to achieve higher social, economic and intellectual status."

These are noble goals and Alpha has been very successful in creating men who have represented those ideals. We all are probably conscious of all the world-changing alumni Alpha has.

BUT the moment when an aspirant requests that application and checks the box off that says they should refuse to be hazed, or be on-line, or be "required" to do anything for the local chapter in order to join, they have a legal and MORAL obligation to adhere to the rules of the national organization, which is final authority on all things Alpha.

When the local chapter then puts pressure on you to fulfill their pledging activities, to go on-line, be put through various "tests" that supposedly separate the boys from the men and make you stronger, they violate the integrity of the aspirant by changing them from a dignified Alpha man to a criminal. The aspirant is promising one thing by signing that contract, and then doing another by pledging.

In all, when aspirants are expected to pledge in order to gain membership into Alpha Phi Alpha, and violate the contract they themselves first signed , they disrespect every individual in the national organization and disregard every alumni who has upheld the core creed of Alpha Phi Alpha.

Obviously there are many men who are Alpha's now who went through pledging and were on-line. Although you may consider yourselves Alpha, recognize the inherent contractual violation you committed when you first sent in your application. You cannot be considered a truly legitimate Alpha man unless you followed the rules required by the national organization.

Every time a new line is created and pledged, a new line of illegitimate Alpha men are inducted into the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity.

The fact that this is your first post is highly suspect. You talk about legal and moral obligation, but you expect brothers in MY FRATERNITY to discuss this topic on an open forum?

Go away. Now.

ETA: Don't be too sure that you can't be found out.