HUGE Autism ruling: No Proof that vaccines cause autism

DaemonSeid · #1 02-12-2009, 09:04 PM

A special U.S. court ruled Thursday against three families' claims that a vaccine caused their children's autism.

The three are among more than 5,500 that have filed petitions making that allegation with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

"The overall weight of the evidence is overwhelmingly contrary to the petitioners' causation theories," George Hastings, the special master appointed to rule on a petition filed by the parents of Michelle Cedillo of Yuma, Ariz., wrote in his 183-page decision.

link

knight_shadow · #2 02-12-2009, 09:21 PM

Slight hijack:

I've heard of autism, but I've never really took the time to understand it. I just did a quick search of some of the symptoms, but many of them seemed like symptoms of OCD. Could someone break down the disorder in layman's terms?

DaemonSeid · #3 02-12-2009, 09:31 PM

Even that is very difficult to do...hold for a bit...I believe there are some GCers who have kids with autism or work with autistic children that will answer your question.

Bottom line is it's very hard to diagnose and treat and this ruling today is going to be a major blow to those who are tyring to forward the cause to get autism cured.

AKA_Monet · #4 02-12-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Slight hijack:

I've heard of autism, but I've never really took the time to understand it. I just did a quick search of some of the symptoms, but many of them seemed like symptoms of OCD. Could someone break down the disease in layman's terms?

It is a communication disorder. "Rainman" the movie shows some of what it is a part of.

The best website I have seen so far is:

Autism Speaks

Typically, depending, as I understand it, most sufferers cannot speak in any way at the age appropriate time they are expected to do so. Basically ~1.5-2 y/o--it is not a "muting" it is literally, they do not know how to verbalize simple things such as "light", etc.

And it is NOT that they cannot absolutely learn. Although some forms are autism do cause a mild mental retardation, most forms of autism causes an inability to communicate in an effective form.

Now, there are some older autistics that compensate and communicate via web, or other high levels of communications. In fact some autistics are savants.

It is believed that the way to communicate with someone with autism is through music... Their brains are literally wired that way... And they learn through musical interaface... It is not known why.

And that is the extent of my knowledge. But it is a fascinating neuromolecular study...

knight_shadow · #5 02-12-2009, 09:46 PM

^^^ Thank you

SWTXBelle · #6 02-12-2009, 09:52 PM

My nephew is autistic. He is relatively high-functioning - exhibits some "Rainman" behaviors, and has great difficulty with social interaction. My sister is firmly convinced that the vaccines "trigger" autism in some children, but if that were the case, with the vaccines being changed we should be seeing fewer cases diagnosed - and that has not happened.

SigKapSweetie · #7 02-12-2009, 11:20 PM

Maybe now the parents of my peds patients will stop this nonsense and start vaccinating their kids again! I had a kid in clinic last year with rubella! (The mom was afraid of autism, so she refused MMRs.)

The original article linking vaccines and autism in the Lancet has been rescinded by all but one of the authors; all admit that their methods were faulty. The current theory is that since children receive vaccines around the age that autism tends to develop, and they also see their pediatrician then, they are more likely to be diagnosed at that time.

AKA_Monet · #8 02-12-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SigKapSweetie

Maybe now the parents of my peds patients will stop this nonsense and start vaccinating their kids again! I had a kid in clinic last year with rubella! (The mom was afraid of autism, so she refused MMRs.)

The original article linking vaccines and autism in the Lancet has been rescinded by all but one of the authors; all admit that their methods were faulty. The current theory is that since children receive vaccines around the age that autism tends to develop, and they also see their pediatrician then, they are more likely to be diagnosed at that time.

My SIL is about to hemmed up because of her illogical conclusion...

The fact is the "research" and the publication in the Lancet was very poorly vetted. The power of the number of patients was not even to say any statistical analysis--not even a Student's t-test!!! What? 12 children? Out of how many get vaccinated for the year? With what follow up? And let's not even get into human subjects division of IRB's to say there is a test!!! And even if it was some "outbreak" of some sort, it the interrogation of the data do not even fall under the simple differentials of autism...

Turns out there was ONLY ONE patient who had mental health issues overall, unrelated to autism!!! The other children, had zero symptoms of autism... Post hoc!!!

Gross scientific misconduct is what happened here...

Hence why I am out of this field these days... Just crazy...

MysticCat · #9 02-13-2009, 12:01 AM

I don't have time (or energy) this late to go into it too much, but my son has Asperger's, a form of high-fuctioning autism. Most people probably wouldn't notice too much amiss except some social awkwardness unless they spent a fair amount of time with him. (Parents of kids on the autism spectrum usually pick up on it pretty quickly, though.)

Autism Spectrum Disorders (not diseases) literally are that -- disorders found on a spctrum from high-functioning to low-functioning. While there are commonalities, there are also a wide variety of differences. Every person on the spectrum will be different.

As for cause, I think most parents I know subscribe to something of a "perfect storm" theory -- that just the right (or wrong) mix of environmental and genetic factors combine to prevent proper neuroligical development.

AGDee · #10 02-13-2009, 10:27 AM

A co-worker and I were discussing this yesterday and she said "Well they've got to find out why there are so many more kids with autism now than before!" I suggested that it's possible that more children are simply being diagnosed. There may be a lot of children with Asperger's whose parents/teachers/doctors aren't aware enough to recognize it. Perhaps, when we were kids, they were just the odd kids. There is more standardized testing now and we know more every day about these types of disorders. I agree that's it is probably the result of a the "perfect storm" of factors that prevents proper neurological development, particular in the way the brain handles and processes sensory stimuli.

AOII Angel · #11 02-13-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Even that is very difficult to do...hold for a bit...I believe there are some GCers who have kids with autism or work with autistic children that will answer your question.

Bottom line is it's very hard to diagnose and treat and this ruling today is going to be a major blow to those who are tyring to forward the cause to get autism cured.

Actually, this should help lead to finding a cure for autism since it should stop people from pushing a theory that has been proven not to be the cause of autism. Continuing to blame vaccines only makes parents feel better that THEY aren't the reason that their kid has autism. Everyone likes to blame someone else for their troubles...that doesn't mean that what or who they blame is really the culprit.

KSigkid · #12 02-13-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Bottom line is it's very hard to diagnose and treat and this ruling today is going to be a major blow to those who are tyring to forward the cause to get autism cured.

How so? Even for those who claim a link between vaccinations and autism, the panel told the plaintiff's attorneys to select a number of "test" cases. It's not completely foreclosing the research; to me, it appears that it's allowing research resources to explore other avenues, instead of fixating on any link to vaccinations.

KSig RC · #13 02-13-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Bottom line is it's very hard to diagnose and treat and this ruling today is going to be a major blow to those who are tyring to forward the cause to get autism cured.

. . . or it could be a major boon for people who are focused on the ACTUAL cause for autism, instead of focusing on an up-til-now-dubious link between autism and vaccinations, right?

I mean, what if the Court actually handled this correctly, and is right?

33girl · #14 02-13-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

A co-worker and I were discussing this yesterday and she said "Well they've got to find out why there are so many more kids with autism now than before!" I suggested that it's possible that more children are simply being diagnosed. There may be a lot of children with Asperger's whose parents/teachers/doctors aren't aware enough to recognize it. Perhaps, when we were kids, they were just the odd kids. There is more standardized testing now and we know more every day about these types of disorders. I agree that's it is probably the result of a the "perfect storm" of factors that prevents proper neurological development, particular in the way the brain handles and processes sensory stimuli.

Absolutely. It's like people freaking out about how much more incest there is now than there used to be....there's not....it's just that people actually put a name on it and come out about it.

MysticCat · #15 02-13-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Bottom line is it's very hard to diagnose and treat and this ruling today is going to be a major blow to those who are tyring to forward the cause to get autism cured.

I'll agree with others who I don't really think this is the case. And I, too, wonder if the "rise" we seen in ASDs is really a rise in occurrence or better diagnosis of people who once might have been dismissed as "odd" (or "stupid" or "problems.") (My purely personal feeling is that it is some of both.)

Believe me, even though I tend to be a "life happens, deal with it and move on" kind of guy, I can identify with all of those parents who want to understand why this happened to their kid, and who, if possible, want to understand if there is a way to "reverse it" or at least keep it from happening to other kids. But sometimes, it just doesn't work out to be that simple.

All the latest research I've seen (and certainly the "anecdotal research" suggests) that there is a genetic component. But I know lots of parents who can identify what seem to be environmental factors that either seem to be commonplace or that seem to make a difference in treatment and improvement. Whether they really are part of the problem (or solution), only time and research can tell.

I know parents who will refuse to believe vaccines are not the/a culprit. I know many others who say "okay, that's been ruled out, what else do we need to look at?"

The bottom line is that when it's your kid, you can be desperate for answers, whether they are the right answers or not. But I think all the questions need to be asked; otherwise, there's no way to separate the right answers from the wrong ones.