Changed the Name

[Attractive#7]

How do you feel about people who change the name of the fraternity? I ran across a bothers' website and it said Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity and Sorority!!! I was floored. They obviously changed the name at the National Convention yesterday and I must have missed the memo * I really hope everyone caught the sarcasm...* But seriously, how do you feel about this, because I know I don't like it...
And this is not the first time I have seen the name of the fraternity changed to say something else.

Going back to the guys' page,he said that Frank Reed Horton was involved with scouting when he was a boy. Please correct me if I am wrong, and I could very well be, but I thought that Frank Reed Horton was introduced to scouting in Nov. 1923 at the American Legion Armistice Ball. This is where he met Herbert Horton. At this time Frank was 27, Herbert 37. It was Herbert Horton and Everett Probst that taught him about scouting. He became a scoutmaster and and a scouter. Now if this is true, then I would not consider 27 to be a boy. I said all of that to say this...is it appropiate to put this type of information out. I realize that our fraternity is not meant to be a "secret society"; however, when you put things out that are not correct, people misconstrue who we are. As I already stated, I could be wrong in my research, so could I get some feedback on this?

[Sister Havana]

Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity and Sorority????

No. No. NO. That is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bro_strawter]

Ive seen it refered to that before. But in no way do I agree with it. As always, yall know I see ALpha Phi Omega as a fraternity. Nothing more, nothing less. Hmmph.

Strawter

[naraht]

Fraternity & Sorority is correct if the website is for our brothers and sisters in the Philippines.

Give us the URL...

Randy

[Attractive#7]

I'll have to look and see if i can find it. i was just browsing when i found it. i think he was from the phillipines, but i think he said his chapter was in the us??? i dont know. i emailed him so if he replies then i will get the url.

my other concern wasn't address about Frank Reed Horton scouting as a boy, was that true?

[33girl]

Originally posted by naraht
Fraternity & Sorority is correct if the website is for our brothers and sisters in the Philippines.

Give us the URL...

Randy

Randy - why is it different in the Philippines? Do they require it to be that way or is it just to make it easier to understand?

[emb021]

Originally posted by Attractive#7


Going back to the guys' page,he said that Frank Reed Horton was involved with scouting when he was a boy. Please correct me if I am wrong, and I could very well be, but I thought that Frank Reed Horton was introduced to scouting in Nov. 1923 at the American Legion Armistice Ball. This is where he met Herbert Horton. At this time Frank was 27, Herbert 37. It was Herbert Horton and Everett Probst that taught him about scouting. He became a scoutmaster and and a scouter. Now if this is true, then I would not consider 27 to be a boy. I said all of that to say this...is it appropiate to put this type of information out. I realize that our fraternity is not meant to be a "secret society"; however, when you put things out that are not correct, people misconstrue who we are. As I already stated, I could be wrong in my research, so could I get some feedback on this?

You're not wrong.

If anyone would read either the Pledge Manual &/or "In the Begining" where FRH gives the history of his establishing APO, they will learn what you stated: that he first got involved in scouting when he met Herbert G Horton. He became a scouting commissioner and involved as a camp director, and later became a scoutmaster. After graduation, he was a professional scouter for many years before moving on to other careers. (never heard a date associated with his meeting of Herbert. your source for this?)

The Pledge Manual is on-line at the National website, so there is little excuse for such misinformation.

Other misinformation about APO I've heard (and had to correct):

All the Founders were Eagle Scouts. (no. as we've pointed out, some were not even scouts.)

Being an Eagle Scout was a requirements to join APO. (no. until 1967, ANY past involvement in scouting was all that was needed).

[Quala67]

Being an Eagle Scout was a requirements to join APO. (no. until 1967, ANY past involvement in scouting was all that was needed).

However, I know that at least one chapter in the 60's had a requirement for someone to be an Eagle. My father-in-law was not APO in school, b/c he only made it to First Class - b/c he couldn't pass Morse Code to get that badge to begin the process toward Eagle.

[emb021]

Originally posted by Quala67
However, I know that at least one chapter in the 60's had a requirement for someone to be an Eagle. My father-in-law was not APO in school, b/c he only made it to First Class - b/c he couldn't pass Morse Code to get that badge to begin the process toward Eagle.

Yes, that is true and happened many times throught our history. Several chapters were started when groups of Eagle Scouts got together to form an "eagle scout fraternity", contacted the BSA National Office and were told about APO. (Delta is a good example of this)

In reading thru my collection of T&T, several times the National org had to emphasis that NO restrictions be placed on the scouting level of potential members. Several chapters wanted to restrict membership to just Eagle Scouts or the like and the BOD didn't want that. I guess some chapters got away with it.

[naraht]

Originally posted by 33girl
Randy - why is it different in the Philippines? Do they require it to be that way or is it just to make it easier to understand?

Its the way that they developed. They had several Alpha Phi Omega Auxiliary Sorority chapters before they became equal. Best history is on the APO-Phil website at http://www.apo.org.ph/?page=articles...a9f69b22496cbc

Great Article.

[naraht]

Originally posted by emb021
Yes, that is true and happened many times throught our history. Several chapters were started when groups of Eagle Scouts got together to form an "eagle scout fraternity", contacted the BSA National Office and were told about APO. (Delta is a good example of this)

The funny thing is that its come in some ways full circle. There is a fraternity that was made for Eagle Scouts. Check out www.epsilontaupi.org . It has its Alpha Chapter at U of Dayton and has a colony at Ohio State University. It was started in early 2000. Not officially recognized by BSA.

There is also a group called simply Eagle Scout Fraternity at SUNY-Maritime.

YiLFS
Randy

[naraht]

Originally posted by emb021
Being an Eagle Scout was a requirements to join APO. (no. until 1967, ANY past involvement in scouting was all that was needed).

Actually, what I've *never* gotten an answer to was whether Cub Scouting experience qualified a brother. One of the reasons that the Scouting requirement was dropped by Con-Con was that some chapters were willing to fulfill the scouting requirement for any man who wanted to pledge by registering them as part of the "College Scouting Reserve" or simply as a Merit Badge Representative (for an easy badge like Basketry or Leatherwork). This only cost an additional $5 and was simply added on to the fees that the pledge paid at initiation. (or at pledging if the chapter was particularly organized. )

Bill Clinton had *zero* experience at a Boy Scout. He was however a Cub Scout.

Randy

[emb021]

Originally posted by naraht
Actually, what I've *never* gotten an answer to was whether Cub Scouting experience qualified a brother. One of the reasons that the Scouting requirement was dropped by Con-Con was that some chapters were willing to fulfill the scouting requirement for any man who wanted to pledge by registering them as part of the "College Scouting Reserve" or simply as a Merit Badge Representative (for an easy badge like Basketry or Leatherwork). This only cost an additional $5 and was simply added on to the fees that the pledge paid at initiation. (or at pledging if the chapter was particularly organized. )

Bill Clinton had *zero* experience at a Boy Scout. He was however a Cub Scout.

Randy

My impression from my one copy of pre-1967 bylaws was the requirement was open to interpretation. It mearly said the candidate must have had current/prior scouting involvement, with ANY recognized scout association, which would allow for foreign students who had been involved in Scouting in their home country to join APO.

Uncertain if the National Board put down any thing about how it should be intepreted, beyond some things I've seen in old T&T that chapters shouldn't restrict membership to just Eagle Scouts.

Since Cub Scouts are part of the scouting movement, its reasonable to expect a chapter to accept a former cub scout.

[Attractive#7]

Originally posted by naraht
Its the way that they developed. They had several Alpha Phi Omega Auxiliary Sorority chapters before they became equal. Best history is on the APO-Phil website at http://www.apo.org.ph/?page=articles...a9f69b22496cbc

Great Article.

Ok I read the article. I just want to make sure I understand it correctly. APO Phil had a lot of women helping them, so they decided to start their own sororities, but then they started apo sorority and offered affliate memebership to women. Then allowed women to have full memebership in apo sorority??? Am I getting this right? So the men are apo fraternity and the women are apo sorority? Are they both co-ed? Like would you have a woman in apo fraternity and a man in apo sorority? I know these probably sound crazy, but I really want to understand.

[emb021]

Originally posted by Attractive#7
Ok I read the article. I just want to make sure I understand it correctly. APO Phil had a lot of women helping them, so they decided to start their own sororities, but then they started apo sorority and offered affliate memebership to women. Then allowed women to have full memebership in apo sorority??? Am I getting this right? So the men are apo fraternity and the women are apo sorority? Are they both co-ed? Like would you have a woman in apo fraternity and a man in apo sorority? I know these probably sound crazy, but I really want to understand.

As I understand it, APO-Phil as an organization is co-ed. However, the men are in fraternity chapters and the women in sorority chapters. At the same school you would have an APO Fraternity Chapter and an APO Sorority Chapter with the same chapter designation. So the individual chapters are NOT co-ed, but the overall organization is because both the Fraternity & Sorority chapters are part of the same org.