Sigma Alpha Epsilon Announces Historic Change for membership experience

[SOM]

Sigma Alpha Epsilon Announces Historic Change for membership experience http://www.sae.net/truegentlemanexperience

[naraht]

Originally Posted by SOM

Sigma Alpha Epsilon Announces Historic Change for membership experience http://www.sae.net/truegentlemanexperience

WOW!

Just curious. Which other members of the NIC have gotten rid of pledging? (One ceremony, straight to brotherhood)

And while I understand some of the reasoning behind the board not being able to do this between conventions, this is *not* going to go down easy.

[dekeguy]

When I first read this I thought' 'Oh Jeez, this is going to to be where the stuff hits the fan'! Then I remembered stories I heard when I was a very young kid about how different things used to be way back when. Apparently it used to be common practice among fraternities that rush was a much longer process where the prospectives were looked at in a number of different social and academic situations. This seemed to go for about a month where there was an informal stag 'smoker', followed the next week by something like a picnic with dates, in turn followed next week by a cocktail party with dates. All the while the prospectives were observed in class and and other campus activities as well as the organized social events. After the first smoker culling sessions were held where the brothers could speak for or against any of the prospectives. Those who made the first cut were invited to the next activity and this went on through three or four culls. Then after the final activity the brothers met for a final selection. Depending on the organization anywhere from several to one single objection would 'blackball' the prospective, but if he got through the culling and was extended a bid it was essentially a done deal. The bid was not given unless the chapter was really sure that they wanted this guy. Again, varying from house to house, the prospective was given a bid on, for example, the Wednesday following the last formal activity and had until Friday to sign the bid or decline. Then that weekend was spent learning what a new guy was supposed to understand about the fraternity and then formally initiated.
Some of the really ancient brothers of several fraternities said this was pretty much the way it was done in the late 1800's through the end of WWI
when many fraternity men returned from overseas to finish their college time. The old guys said that they were told by the even older guys that the WWI returnees thought the concept of military basic training would be a good idea for new guys (pledges). In those old days hazing was much less dangerous and more tongue-in-cheek and good natured. This began to change in the 1930s but really became what was viewed as a problem after the mid-70s or early 80s.
Anyway, if this SAE initiative is well handled and has a positive effect it might be something we might all want to take a look at.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by naraht

WOW!

Just curious. Which other members of the NIC have gotten rid of pledging? (One ceremony, straight to brotherhood)

And while I understand some of the reasoning behind the board not being able to do this between conventions, this is *not* going to go down easy.

Zeta Beta Tau abolished pledging in 1989. Sigma Phi Epsilon changed from a traditional pledge program to a "process" in 1991. In both groups (from my understanding), new members are given all the same rights as actives as soon as they accept their bids.

This is where the path of hazing leads.

Posters on SAE's FB page are not happy with the change.

[sugar and spice]

I think it's a brilliant idea in theory. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out in reality.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by sugar and spice

I think it's a brilliant idea in theory. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out in reality.

Basically, in chapters with hazing traditions, members become full brothers, but are still treated as NM's...the most recent pledge class is still hazed.

[Katmandu]

Lambda Chi Alpha does not have pledging.

[Griffins&Quills]

I think this is a horrible idea. You basically become a joke. I'm sorry, but it's true. Not to mention, pledging, for fraternities and sororities alike is a time to learn about the values, traditions and history of an organization, so that when initiation comes along it actually means something.

[sugar and spice]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Basically, in chapters with hazing traditions, members become full brothers, but are still treated as NM's...the most recent pledge class is still hazed.

But those most recent members will now have the leverage of knowing ritual secrets, which they'll take with them if they quit and will probably be inclined to share if the older members treat them too harshly. It's possible that SAE HQ isn't too worried about this over the long run, given that everybody's ritual is probably going to end up splashed all over the internet sooner or later. For the meantime, though, for hazed new members, it's leverage.

I agree with you that it's not going to magically fix the problem of hazing, but I do think it puts the newer members on much leveler ground with the older members.

With Lambda Chi Alpha, Sig Ep, and most of the other groups that have eliminated "pledging," don't most of them still have some kind of associate member/new member period where initiation doesn't happen for the first couple months? ZBT might be the exception where initiation happens immediately, I'm not sure.

[Griffins&Quills]

Yes, as far as I know, Lambda Chi and Sig Ep do have associate member periods. Is hazing a problem? Yes. But I don't think this is the way to fix it. It undermines and devalues 150 years of traditions and history and all the things you're supposed to learn during the pledge period. Plus since this is so high profile, it could have serious implications for all groups, NIC and NPC. I personally, am not willing to share my ritual, the day after bid day, with Suzy PNM who could turn around 3 days later and quit. Ritual then means nothing, for all of us, it's not secret or sacred or special.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by sugar and spice

But those most recent members will now have the leverage of knowing ritual secrets, which they'll take with them if they quit and will probably be inclined to share if the older members treat them too harshly. It's possible that SAE HQ isn't too worried about this over the long run, given that everybody's ritual is probably going to end up splashed all over the internet sooner or later. For the meantime, though, for hazed new members, it's leverage.

I agree with you that it's not going to magically fix the problem of hazing, but I do think it puts the newer members on much leveler ground with the older members.

With Lambda Chi Alpha, Sig Ep, and most of the other groups that have eliminated "pledging," don't most of them still have some kind of associate member/new member period where initiation doesn't happen for the first couple months? ZBT might be the exception where initiation happens immediately, I'm not sure.

I don't really think that members who engage in hazing are going to be deterred by the fact that the NMs already know ritual secrets. In the chapters I've seen adopt a no-pledging program, nothing changed.

[SAEalumnus]

The primary objection that members are having is not with the merits of the idea, but rather with the method with which it was developed and announced.

This new program made sweeping changes to the national Fraternity Laws and repealed a portion of our Ritual in its entirety, all with zero authority to do so. It also was kept secret from members, alumni, and advisers, except for a privileged few who were given the information a couple of weeks ago. Those who heard rumors and asked national staff were denied information.

Only the biennial national Fraternity Convention, at which the undergraduates own the majority share of votes, has the authority to amend or repeal the Fraternity Laws or the Ritual. Even then, any such proposal must be submitted in writing months in advance, published to the Fraternity, discussed and voted on at the Convention, and achieve a two-thirds majority vote in order to pass. Alternatively, the Supreme Council can submit a proposal to the membership of the Convention via a direct mail vote if the matter can't wait until the next Convention.

The five-member Supreme Council acting on its own does not have the authority to do this. They are attempting to invent this authority by pulling the word "represent" out of context and ignoring the multiple sections of the Fraternity Laws that clearly but inconveniently establish otherwise.

[snowflakemom]

Honestly, I think this is a smart move for SAE. I read the QandA on their website and it makes sense to me why they did this. I can see how this change will be hard and I'm sure there will be breakaway groups but I think they are looking at the longevity of the organization and making sure it will be around in the future.

[SOM]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

Zeta Beta Tau abolished pledging in 1989. Sigma Phi Epsilon changed from a traditional pledge program to a "process" in 1991. In both groups (from my understanding), new members are given all the same rights as actives as soon as they accept their bids.

This is where the path of hazing leads.

Posters on SAE's FB page are not happy with the change.

LaneSig: Minor correction: The page that you bring up (and the one that was mentioned it at least two Greek blogs that I have seen) is NOT the Official Sigma Alpha Epsilon page. And out of the 5 or so I am on, it is the only one that did blow up over this. Will be interesting to see what develops on the several Sigma Alpha Epsilon LinkedIn pages.

Short term is going to be hard on all involved. However we need the long term benefits for our general health and well being as an Organization.

My Brother here maybe onto something with his comments. At least it is rational and well thought out reasoning. Many of the postings on that Facebook page were far, far from it. To the point that page owner tried to moderated it. And when that failed, deleted it. Also many people, reading about it, tried to get into the page. And judging from some of the comments, the people behind them may be part of the problem(s) we as Greek Organization are having and many other GLO's are having.

[SAEalumnus]

Originally Posted by snowflakemom

Honestly, I think this is a smart move for SAE. I read the QandA on their website and it makes sense to me why they did this. I can see how this change will be hard and I'm sure there will be breakaway groups but I think they are looking at the longevity of the organization and making sure it will be around in the future.

I don't necessarily disagree. However, this would be like the president writing his own laws without regard for Congress. The checks and balances are there for a reason.