Are Black Women Scaring Off Black Men

[CrimsonTide4]

I just received this in an e-mail and wanted to share with you all to get your take on the article.

A few questions to consider as you read through this:

1. How do black couples define their gender roles?
2. How do black men and women measure manhood and womanhood?

"Why Are Black Women Scaring Off Their Men? A Fighting Spirit Is Important-but Not at Home"

The Washington Post
By: Joy Jones

Have you met this woman? She has a good job, works hard, earns a good salary. She went to college, got her master's degree; she is intelligent. She is personable, articulate, well read, interested in everybody and everything. Yet, she's single.

Or maybe you know this one. She is active in the church, faithful,
committed. Sings in the choir, serves on the usher board, attends every committee meeting. Loves the Lord and knows the Word. You'd think that with her command of the Scriptures and the respect of her church members, she'd have a marriage as solid as a rock. But again, no husband.

Or perhaps you recognize the community activist. She's a black lady or as she prefers, an African American woman-on the move. She sports a short natural, sometimes cornrow braids, or even dredlocks. She's an organizer, a motivator, a dynamo. Her work for her people speaks for itself- organizing women for a self-help collective, raising funds for a community cause, educating others around a new issue in South Africa. Black folks look up to her, and white folks know she's a force to be reckoned with. Yet once again, the men leave her alone.

What do these women have in common? They have so much; what is it they lack? Why is it they may be able to hook a man but can't hold him? The women puzzle over this quandary themselves. They gather at professional clubs, at sorority meetings or over coffee at the office and wonder what's wrong with black men. They hold special prayer vigils and fast and pray and beg Jesus to send the men back to church. They find thebrothers attending political strategizing sessions or participating in protests, but when it comes time to go home, the brothers go home to someone else.

I know these women because I am all of these women. And after asking over and over again "What's wrong with these men?" It finally dawned on me to ask the question, "What's wrong with us women?"

What I have found, and what many of these women have yet to discover, is that the skills that make one successful in the church, community or workplace are not the skills that make one successful in a relationship.

Linear thinking, self-reliance, structured goals and direct action
assist one in getting assignments done, in organizing church or club activities, or in positioning oneself for a raise; but relationship
building requires different skills. It requires making decisions that
not only gratify you, but satisfy others. It means doing things that
will keep the peace rather than achieve the goal; and sometimes, it means creating the peace in the first place.

Maintaining a harmonious relationship will not always allow you to take the straight line between two points. You may have to stoop to conquer or yield to win. In too many cases, when dealing with men, you will have to sacrifice being right in order to enjoy being loved.

Being acknowledged as the head of the household is an especially
important thing for many black men, since their manhood is so often actively challenged everywhere else. Many modern women are so independent, so self-sufficient, so committed to the cause, to the church, to career-or their narrow concepts of same-that their entire personalities project an "I don't need a man" message. So they end up without one.

An interested man may be attracted, but he soon discovers that this sister makes very little space for him in her life. Going to graduate school is a good goal and an option that previous generations of blacks have not had.

But sometimes the achieving woman will place her boyfriend so low on her list of priorities that his interest wanes. Between work, school and homework, she's seldom "there" for him, for the preliminaries that might develop a commitment to a woman.

She's too busy to prepare him a home-cooked meal or to be a listening ear for his concerns because she is so occupied with her own. Soon he uses her only for uncommitted sex since-to him-she appears unavailable for anything else. Blind to the part she's playing in the problem, she ends up thinking, "Men only want one thing." Thus she decides she's better off with the degree than the friendship. When she's 45, she may wish she'd set different priorities while she was younger. It's not just the busy career girl who can't see the forest for the trees.

A couple I know were having marital troubles. During one argument, the husband confronted the wife and asked what she thought they should do about the marriage, what direction they should take. She reached for her Bible and turned to Ephesians. "I know what Paul says and I know what Jesus says about marriage," he told her. "What do you say about our
marriage?" Dumbfounded, she could not say anything. Like so many of us, she could recite the Scriptures but could not apply them to everyday living. Before the year was out, the husband had filed for divorce.

Women who focus on civil rights or community activism have vigorous, fighting spirits and are prepared to do whatever, whenever, to benefit black people. That's good. That's necessary. But it needs to be kept in perspective. It's too easy to save the world and lose your man. A fighting spirit is important on the battlefield, but a gentler spirit is wanted on the home front.

Too many women are winning the battle and losing the home. Sometimes in our determined efforts to be strong believers and hard workers, we contemporary women downplay, denigrate or simply forget our more traditional feminine attributes.

Men value women best for the ways we are different from them, not the ways we are the same. Men appreciate us for our grace and beauty. Men enjoy our softness and see it as a way to be in touch with their tender side, a side they dare not show to other men.

A hard-working woman is good to have on your committee. But when a man goes home, he'd prefer a loving partner to a hard worker. It's not an easy transition for the modern black woman to make. It sounds submissive, reactionary, outmoded, oppressive. We have fought so hard for so many things, and rightfully so. We have known so many men who were shaky, jive and untrustworthy. Yet we must admit that we are shaky, jive and willful in our own ways.

Not having a husband allows us to do whatever we want, when and how we want important thing to do it. Having one means we have to share the power and certain points will have to be surrendered. We are terrified of marriage and commitment- yet dread the prospect of being single and alone. Throwing
ourselves into work seems to fill the void without posing a threat. But like any other drug, the escape eventually becomes the cage.

To make the break, we need to do less and "be" more. I am learning to "be still and know," to be trusting. I am learning to stop competing with black men and to collaborate with them, to temper my assertive and aggressive energy with softness and serenity. I'm not preaching a philosophy of "women should be seen and not heard." But I have come to realize that I-and many of my smart and independent sisters-are out of touch with our feminine center and, therefore, out of touch with our men.

About a year ago, I was at an oldies-but-goodies club. As a native
Washingtonian, I love to do the bop and the hand-dance styles that were popular when I was a teen.

In those dances, the man has his set of steps and the woman has hers, but the couple is still two partners and must move together. On this evening, I was sitting out a record when a thought came to me. If a man were to say, "I'm going to be in charge and you're going to follow. I want you to adjust your ways to fit in with mine"- - I'd dismiss him as a Neanderthal. With
my hand on my hip, I'd tell him that I have just as much sense as he does and that he can't tell me what to do. Yet, on the dance floor, I love following a man's lead. I don't feel inferior or feel I have to prove that I'm just as able to lead as he is. I simply allow him to take my hand, and I go with the flow.

I am still single. I am over 30 and scared. I am still a member of my church, have no plans to quit my good government job and will continue to do what I can for my people. I think that I have a healthy relationship with a good man. But today, I know that I have to bring some of that spirit of the dance into my relationship.

Dancing solo - I've mastered that. Now I'm learning how to accept his lead, and to go with the flow.

All men dream but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that is was vanity, but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.

[Honeykiss1974]

I hate reading garbage like this. It really sickens me to know that it advocates that all black women need to be submissive to a man, because we are loud , too head-strong, , or whatever the stereotype is.

I personally believe that the reason why so many of us are single are mainly because of things that do not even have to do with those cited in the article. but large more serious issues. (i.e. the large % of our men in prison, education and wage difference, etc.)

And please don't get me started on the trend of dating "OTHER" women.

[Strive]

The article was interesting to say the least. However, the reason why I am single is because I have not been out that much. I do not socialize like I should so. My lack of dating is my fault, not the man.

I disagree with your title. Black women do not scare off black men. Contrary to popular belief, our successful black men started dating white women because they cannot find a sister in their inner circle. Of course, we know this is a bunch of BS. Our black men who are not that successful date white women because of the slave mentality of yesteryear. The slave master used to rape the black women when his wife refuse to have sex with them. So in a sense the black men are trying to get back what was taking from them by using the white women.

I do not have problem with interracial relationship. Oh, let me rephrase that I do have a problem with interracial relationship when a black man who exclusively dates black women when he was not successful, then starts dating white women when he becomes successful. Those black men disgust me.

[ChaosDST]

Black women aren't scaring away black men ANYMORE than they are scaring us away.

For those of us who can't see ourselves with ANYTHING BUT A BLACK MAN, it often makes us wonder will the patience, love, and understanding pay off. Eventually it most definitely will---and it has for so many of us. But, black women AND MEN need to leave the excuses out of the equation, get over the egos, and get that BLACK LOVE going!!!

[Afrochic]

Originally posted by ChaosDST
Black women aren't scaring away black men ANYMORE than they are scaring us away.

For those of us who can't see ourselves with ANYTHING BUT A BLACK MAN, it often makes us wonder will the patience, love, and understanding pay off. Eventually it most definitely will---and it has for so many of us. But, black women AND MEN need to leave the excuses out of the equation, get over the egos, and get that BLACK LOVE going!!!

And let the church say Ya-men.

[thesweetestone]

Why as black women we are taught to nurse our mens ego? Why is it our fault the relationship failed because we wanted to futher our education and not his for being unwilling to understanding our needs or situation? Shouldn't men have some responsiblity in the relationship? Just because the woman doesn't have alot of time to spend with her man that doesn't mean it's cool to go out and be with other women. Personally, I don't want a man that I've got to constantly cater to and babysit. As for as listening to THEIR problems, black women are double minorities so they don't have it any harder than us. Rather than put up with a whole lot of BS I rather be alone.

[lovele1978]

I don't think that the article is talking about catering to the black man. I had this same discussion with a friend of mine this weekend because we both have very outgoing and sucessful friends (both men and women) who are single and do not understand why. What I got from the article is that if we put the same passion into our relationships that we put into our education, civil activities, careers, etc. then somehow women will find a balance. My aunt once told me that no matter how much money you make, or how much education you have, you have to let a man be a man. That does not mean to let him walk all over you and to be submissive, but to understand and acknowledge that that is his role.

I also agree with Honeykiss that in this era there is a disproportionate amount of educated, successful black women to black men. The ratio sucks. But when we do find one (a good one I mean, not any 'ole joe of the street), we have to treat him like the strong black man we always preach about.

Just my honest opinion.

[Honeykiss1974]

lovele1978,

You do make some valid points (espicially about letting a man be a man. ). I guess I have problems with articles like this because they usually claim that we are "too busy" to take care of our man or want to always run things......and I just don't believe that is the majority of the cases....

To all:

In my relationship now, I do agree that sometimes you have to let a man win a battle, in order to win the war ...or in other words......COMPROMISE. However, this article makes it seem like that we as women are the only ones that must do that. Currently now, I attend grad school and work full-time, so yes, I am one of those women that is soo busy and unable to spend every available moment in my man's face. However, my man UNDERSTANDS that this is a temporary sacrifice. If anything, it has strengthened our relationship because the QUALITY time that we spend together is wonderful .

This article (and others like it) just feed into the black women "ball-busting, take no stuff, Shanaynay oh no you di' it, " stereotypes (which is the same stereotypes that most brothas use to justify why they do not date black women).

I don't know, maybe it just rubs my the wrong way.....I feel sometimes we as black women have the burden of the entire world on our shoulders and just can't win for losing. If its not one thing (sexism, racism, "good" hair, "bad" hair, light, dark, single moms, etc.), its another.

DAMNED IF YOU DO...AND DAMNED IF YOU DON'T!

[ChaosDST]

I don't think the article is talking about catering to the black man, either. Although, I don't find anything wrong with black men and women catering to one another.

Why are black women always asked to put the same passion into our relationships as we do into our education and career? For years, it was expected and accepted that our men would be missing in action half the time in pursuit of educational or career accalades. We were expected to stand by them, support them, raise the children, feel neglected, and through it all...have a hot dinner waiting for them when they got home.

I'm ALL FOR putting my passion and energy into something that is deserving and from which I can expect (because I deserve it) reciprocation. But, believe that black women have put so much emphasis on education and career because we learned the HARD WAY that we couldn't always count on the black man to be there for us. When times get hard, they tend to leave.

So, when a strong black man comes around...he will be the benefactor of my passion and effort. I will respect his pride and manhood (black men need to feel like the men that they are). At the same time, I will expect him to give me what I'm giving him. We will BOTH be demanded to give the same time and attention to one another that we give to others or to our work. In that, we will also know when "chill time" is necessary so that both of us can go out into the world and achieve. I don't want a man SO IN LOVE WITH ME that he has stopped loving to succeed.

Originally posted by lovele1978
I don't think that the article is talking about catering to the black man. I had this same discussion with a friend of mine this weekend because we both have very outgoing and sucessful friends (both men and women) who are single and do not understand why. What I got from the article is that if we put the same passion into our relationships that we put into our education, civil activities, careers, etc. then somehow women will find a balance. My aunt once told me that no matter how much money you make, or how much education you have, you have to let a man be a man. That does not mean to let him walk all over you and to be submissive, but to understand and acknowledge that that is his role.

I also agree with Honeykiss that in this era there is a disproportionate amount of educated, successful black women to black men. The ratio sucks. But when we do find one (a good one I mean, not any 'ole joe of the street), we have to treat him like the strong black man we always preach about.

Just my honest opinion.

[7thSonofOsiris]

After reading this article, I am both happy to know that thoughts like it are shared amongst blk women, and I am happy to see the varied responses to it. Referencing the last part of my opening statement first, we must learn to duly appreciate the differences in each other's opinion driven responses, because blk women come just as varied as those repsonses. Oh yes, foundationally, blk women may have 98% of the same traits and intrinsic qualities, but, but it is each woman's specific journey, that makes her different from her sister.
You sisters are varied in background, exposure, theocratic belief, educational levels, earning levels, experiences with your fathers which ultimately affects each your experiences with the men you meet, and finally, each of you women have some slight variation in your life's fulfilling expectations.
In both pratice and theory, contemporary blk men love the strength that you sisters gain that comes from being independent, but, this spirit of independence must be coupled with that part of your genome, that part of you that insured that you would be born nurturers. We love knowing that we can, fight the world all day, and come home to that teammate who's presence and spirit will relax us, tend to us, and elevate us. We love the sister who has a sense of vision and focus, but, we want to know that we will be able to bring together, both our vision and her vision, without embarrassment in the direction of that vision, or without having to lower our confidence about that vision. Its the combining of these visions though, that will make you two a truly successful couple. Now, this doesn't mean that couples will not encounter their regular couple driven issues, but, those can be conquered, especially when compromise and communication are strong suits in your relationships.
Lastly, as I interact with my female friends and or relatives, and I listen as they go on about the business of discussing their men and relationships, or, even if they talk about fears and concerns when considering what their futures have in store in the area of love, I always say to them. First, look beyond what a man earns, but moreso, look at how he handles what he earns. Study his habits of stewardship and how he manages his money. Couple that with what he shares with you, is his vision for his life. I always say to them, secondly, look at how he interacts with the women who raised him and the women in his family. That will tell you something about how he was schooled to interact with women. Sometimes, men can be chameleons and hide their trues hearts, but, this putting on airs and hiding their truer selves can only last for a little while. We are way too simple creatures, if he's faking at who he wants you to believe that he is, trust me when I say that he won't have the endurance to do this for too long. I always say to them, thirdly, look at the conduct and habits of the men who raised him, especially the character of his father if there was a father present. This will show you the ways in which he was schooled to be a man. Lastly, I will advise sisters to always, always, look at the woman that you are now, and look at the woman that you desire to become, and ask yourselves, how attractive you are to "you". I was taught that, if you aren't attractive to yourself, then you for sure won't be attractive to anyone else. We men will fall in love with the "you", that you present to us. Make her above average, intelligent, confident, spiritual, loyal, trust worthy, visionary, passionate and fuse this with an understanding of Biblical order and text, and we men will give you all that we are.

[laylo]

So we still haven't moved past Moynihan. We're still not looking at the the rates of imprisonment, death, and denied access to health and education that systematically wipe out the "supply" of Black men. Instead we still prefer to blame Black women's personal behavior. We're still saying that Black women work too much, go to school too much, and take care of themselves too much, as if there has EVER been someone else to do these things for us. We're still ignoring the fact that Black women are doing what they have to do to take care of their children, because in most cases we are all they've got. Black women didn't wake up one morning and say "I don't need a man", they looked at centuries of history which told them that they didn't have the luxury of waiting for someone to support them.

Yes, there are certain Biblical standards and qualities about marriage and gender roles. And guess what? ALL RACES BREAK THEM. Black women are no further from the standard than any other women. Futhermore, I do take Paul's words to heart, but lets not forget that Proverbs 31 is about a wife who works her tail off to provide what her family needs!

[laylo]

One more thing:

Originally Posted by CrimsonTide4

A couple I know were having marital troubles. During one argument, the husband confronted the wife and asked what she thought they should do about the marriage, what direction they should take. She reached for her Bible and turned to Ephesians. "I know what Paul says and I know what Jesus says about marriage," he told her. "What do you say about our
marriage?" Dumbfounded, she could not say anything. Like so many of us, she could recite the Scriptures but could not apply them to everyday living. Before the year was out, the husband had filed for divorce.

You gotta love it.

[MasonsInquiries]

hello, everyone! i'm new to the site and I have several things to say concerning this issue.

FIRST, i wouldn't say that black women are scaring black men off. i really wish more black men would step up to the plate and learn how to be just that (MEN). as of 10/17/09, 35% of all the black men in this country have either been to jail or are currently in jail. more brothers need to step up to the plate and be actual "fathers" to the children they make. also, it would be nice if more brothers went to college. if this recession, doesn't teach someone the importance of a quality education, then NOTHING will. get it together, brothas!!!


NOW, sistas.....

i want to first start off by saying that BY FAR, black women are the most beautiful creatures on the face of this earth. seemingly, most black women have everything that, frankly, any man would want; everything except the most important thing.....the RIGHT attitude. of all the women on the face of this earth, black women are the LEAST desired, and do you guys know why? the ATTITUDE!

most black women i've ever come in contact with in my lifetime seem to have the same characteristics below:

1) most black women don't know how to love. they know how to SCREW, but not love someone (for eternity).

2) most black women are unsupportive

3) most black women are unappreciative

4) most black women are shallow.

5) most black women try to be control freaks

6) most black women don't know the difference between being aggressive and being rude.

7) most black women have no class.

now, let me say something about "class". for those sistas who have never been taught how to have class, that's another issue. you can't blame someone for something they've never been taught. but however, for those sistas who know exactly what it means to have class but still chooses to act "ghetto", that's what i have a problem with. class is something that ANYONE can learn, people!!!

mary j. blige went to etiquette school some years ago because she admitted that "even though i have a successful music career, i have no class". since she has done this, i have had as much respect for her as one person could have for another. the queen of r&b is a better woman because of this change.


8) most black women are loud.

now, alot of my friends don't have a problem with this, but i do. it goes back to #8 (having NO class).

so, in essence, i guess you could say in a big way that black women are indeed scaring us away....

[Xanthus]

Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries

hello, everyone! i'm new to the site and I have several things to say concerning this issue.

FIRST, i wouldn't say that black women are scaring black men off. i really wish more black men would step up to the plate and learn how to be just that (MEN). as of 10/17/09, 35% of all the black men in this country have either been to jail or are currently in jail. more brothers need to step up to the plate and be actual "fathers" to the children they make. also, it would be nice if more brothers went to college. if this recession, doesn't teach someone the importance of a quality education, then NOTHING will. get it together, brothas!!!


NOW, sistas.....

i want to first start off by saying that BY FAR, black women are the most beautiful creatures on the face of this earth. seemingly, most black women have everything that, frankly, any man would want; everything except the most important thing.....the RIGHT attitude. of all the women on the face of this earth, black women are the LEAST desired, and do you guys know why? the ATTITUDE!

most black women i've ever come in contact with in my lifetime seem to have the same characteristics below:

1) most black women don't know how to love. they know how to SCREW, but not love someone (for eternity).

2) most black women are unsupportive

3) most black women are unappreciative

4) most black women are shallow.

5) most black women try to be control freaks

6) most black women don't know the difference between being aggressive and being rude.

7) most black women have no class.

now, let me say something about "class". for those sistas who have never been taught how to have class, that's another issue. you can't blame someone for something they've never been taught. but however, for those sistas who know exactly what it means to have class but still chooses to act "ghetto", that's what i have a problem with. class is something that ANYONE can learn, people!!!

mary j. blige went to etiquette school some years ago because she admitted that "even though i have a successful music career, i have no class". since she has done this, i have had as much respect for her as one person could have for another. the queen of r&b is a better woman because of this change.


8) most black women are loud.

now, alot of my friends don't have a problem with this, but i do. it goes back to #8 (having NO class).

so, in essence, i guess you could say in a big way that black women are indeed scaring us away....

I agree about the black guys, most are fucked up. I disagree about the black chicks. I don't see the attitude you're talking about, and I work with black chicks. I seriously would love to get something going with a black chick. I don't have a preference when it comes to chicks, but I would love to try something I never had.

edit: to be honest with you, you have no class. You're a fucking retard. Most black chicks I've come across in my lifetime have been pretty decent chicks. You're a piece of shit.

[Xanthus]

Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries

so, in essence, i guess you could say in a big way that black women are indeed scaring us away....

Hey dude, all the black chicks that scare you away, send them to me. I'll have a field day with a black chick.

I also just looked at your profile. You said you're married. Is your wife African American? And you seriously just opened up a whole shit load of worms. You do know that, right?