Getting a Man or Getting Ahead....

[Nuyorican]

First of all I would like to congratulate Erika Dunlap. As I retrieved my morning newspaper from my lawn this morning, I noticed the results of the Miss America Pageant. Suddenly I thought this might be an opportunity to obtain some first hand information. My name is Benny Torres and I am graduating this semester from the University of South Florida (Tampa) with a double major in Business and Sociology. I'm in the process of preparing a paper on a research project that was done in 1999; called "Getting a Man or Getting Ahead - A Comparison of White and Black Sororities, authored by Alexandra Berkowitz and Irene Padavic". I'll give a short overview. The researchers visited two different campuses and interviewed women from white and black sororities. Their conclusion was that white sorority women in this sample regarded sorority membership as a way to lead a productive social life that they hoped would enable them to get a man. In contrast, African American women's sorority participation centered on community service and career advancement. The two types of sorority appear to be structured to facilitate different agendas: for white women, short-term participation geared to meeting men and for black women, long-term participation geared to furthering both individual careers and the uplifting of the race through community projects.

I notice that Ms. Dunlap plans to promote her social program of "cultural diversity and inclusiveness". Therefore, I would like to know if her thoughts are similar to her "sorority sisters", or is your sense of community, race, and love; whether it is love for a man or family, different in each of you?

Thank you,
Benny Torres

[Nuyorican]

The Delta Sigma Theta Sorority website states how ninety years ago; 22 collegiate women at Howard University founded this sorority. They wanted to use their collective strength to promote academic excellence and to provide assistance to persons in need. In addition, it tells about the mission and service of the sorors, to convey their commitment to excellence, to communicate their service to humanity, and to connect ideas around the globe. On the morning after Erika Dunlap was crowned Miss Universe, I posted a serious question. A question for what I assumed would be a forum of intelligent women. Women that would be willing to impart with a few words. Words that would reflect their thoughts and feelings at the moment. However, all I received was 84 “views”, but no responses. Eighty four women looked, but not one person had anything to say! I found women that were more interested in…3 new black comedies for WB in the fall, the ABC’s of an ex-boyfriend, Survivor: Pearl Island, BET’s new TV lineup, and on….and on….and on. Oh yea, that really makes for great rhetoric. By the way, your sorors at the University of South Florida seemed a bit disappointed. Someone asked, “You mean to tell me not one person responded?

Thank you,
Benny Torres

[Eclipse]

I am not a member of this fine sorority, but since no one else has publicly responded, I'll put my 2 cents in.

The question in your first post, in my opinion, was somewhat confusing.

Are you asking if Deltas are concerned about "cultural diversity and inclusiveness"? Are you asking if all Deltas think alike? What specifically do you want to know about their sense of community race, or love?

I think you should also remember that while this is a forum for members of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. many other people--non sorority, members of other sororities, males even--visit this site and probably are included in that 84 number that you referenced.

Good luck with your research paper

[brickhouse492]

Originally posted by Nuyorican
I notice that Ms. Dunlap plans to promote her social program of "cultural diversity and inclusiveness". Therefore, I would like to know if her thoughts are similar to her "sorority sisters", or is your sense of community, race, and love; whether it is love for a man or family, different in each of you?

Thank you,
Benny Torres

I am not a member of this fine sorority either.

I can say that I am interested in organizations made up of like-minded individuals who care about the community and have a high regard for education. I like individuals who are confident and not easily intimidated or bullied. Did you ever stop to think that maybe your post went unanswered because individuals were researching the information you provided (asked for)? I honestly don't know. Did you read the first thread of the forum? Very important!

I think the accomplishments of the organization speak volumes. But Sir, I don't think you should get offended because nobody responded to your post(s). When individuals are interested in learning about any xyz sorority around here, they have to do research. I thought the information on the National Website was representative of the goals, achievements, plans and other goings on of the organization and it's members. I'm not even sure if the organization and members are separate entities. Have you considered that? It is definitely not a good idea to insult the people that you are requesting information from but …

Good luck with your research paper.

[brickhouse492]

Originally posted by brickhouse492
I'm not even sure if the organization and members are separate entities. Have you considered that?

By the way, YOU referred to Ms. Dunlap's plans to promote HER social program of "cultural diversity and inclusiveness." Are you asking if individuals promote individual objectives outside of the sorority?" If you want intelligent answers, you have to ask intelligent questions. By no means am I suggesting your question(s) are not intelligent but they could have been better thought out in my opinion.

[Nuyorican]

I didn’t mean to insult anyone; though my last statement was a bit callous. Actually, I was just looking for anyone's thoughts. I just wanted a general consensus. How do you feel about community, race or love (not just for a man)? Are these issues equally paramount in your life; or does one take precedent over the other? I appreciate your response.

[lovelyivy84]

Your question is really, really vague. I could write a dissertation.

[Nuyorican]

This is really, really crazy. A dissertation?...how about a sentence or two. The original post on this forum stated what the research project entailed; which, at the time, had already been completed. I wasn't looking for any material; I was just curious about your thoughts or views. Anyone could have responded to the first paragraph, which in part states, Their conclusion was that white sorority women in this sample regarded sorority membership as a way to lead a productive social life that they hoped would enable them to get a man. In contrast, African American women's sorority participation centered on community service and career advancement. The two types of sorority appear to be structured to facilitate different agendas: for white women, short-term participation geared to meeting men and for black women, long-term participation geared to furthering both individual careers and the uplifting of the race through community projects. . What is so vague about that statement? Whether you agree or not agree with the authors' conclusion would have been sufficient.

The second paragraph could have been addressed in the same manner. Do you agree or not agree with Ms. Dunlap? Do you feel a sense of connection to your community, or are you primarily concerned with your own personal self and accomplishments? What are your personal views about a man in your life. Do you need one to feel fulfilled? What motivates you as you proceed through life? Anything would have sufficed.

I’m not the most intelligent person in the world, but I know where my intelligence lies. And I make it a point not to be vague, verbally or in the written word. Unfortunately, everyone expended more energy trying to tell me how obscure my statement was, where a small amount of that energy would have answered the question. If this was a point of pros and cons on a particular issue, we could trade words back and forth all day. However, this all stems from no one giving me a single thought on a not too difficult statement. It makes me wonder if you didn’t have a view one way or the other, and if that was the case; I would have accepted that.

Originally posted by Nuyorican
white sorority women in this sample regarded sorority membership as a way to lead a productive social life that they hoped would enable them to get a man.

And he/she wonders why noone is touching this with a ten-foot pole.

YIKES.

[Kimmie1913]

Originally posted by Nuyorican
This is really, really crazy. A dissertation?...how about a sentence or two. The original post on this forum stated what the research project entailed; which, at the time, had already been completed. I wasn't looking for any material; I was just curious about your thoughts or views. Anyone could have responded to the first paragraph, which in part states, Their conclusion was that white sorority women in this sample regarded sorority membership as a way to lead a productive social life that they hoped would enable them to get a man. In contrast, African American women's sorority participation centered on community service and career advancement. The two types of sorority appear to be structured to facilitate different agendas: for white women, short-term participation geared to meeting men and for black women, long-term participation geared to furthering both individual careers and the uplifting of the race through community projects. . What is so vague about that statement? Whether you agree or not agree with the authors' conclusion would have been sufficient.

The second paragraph could have been addressed in the same manner. Do you agree or not agree with Ms. Dunlap? Do you feel a sense of connection to your community, or are you primarily concerned with your own personal self and accomplishments? What are your personal views about a man in your life. Do you need one to feel fulfilled? What motivates you as you proceed through life? Anything would have sufficed.

I’m not the most intelligent person in the world, but I know where my intelligence lies. And I make it a point not to be vague, verbally or in the written word. Unfortunately, everyone expended more energy trying to tell me how obscure my statement was, where a small amount of that energy would have answered the question. If this was a point of pros and cons on a particular issue, we could trade words back and forth all day. However, this all stems from no one giving me a single thought on a not too difficult statement. It makes me wonder if you didn’t have a view one way or the other, and if that was the case; I would have accepted that.

First, let me say that I found your original post to be vague and was not sure what exactly your question was.

Were you interested in how we felt about the perception of NPC v. NPHC sororities? If so, that is a topic that has been well covered on GC. Per the "A Torch to Guide You" thread, members of the forum tend not to repeatedly discuss issues that have been previously addressed. Use of the forum's search feature will yield a myriad of threads on that topic.

Next, if your question was do we agree with Soror Dunlap's platform, I am not sure how many people were going to come along to denounce a platform based on inclusiveness and diversity. Agreement with her cause, in and of itself, is not a very thought provoking question and could have been answered with a yes or a no. Since there are other threads around GC dealing with Soror Dunlap's victory, some of them also address her platform. One of those threads may have been a more appropriate choice if your inquiry was simply reaction to her choice of causes.

As for this question "Do you feel a sense of connection to your community, or are you primarily concerned with your own personal self and accomplishments? What are your personal views about a man in your life. Do you need one to feel fulfilled? What motivates you as you proceed through life?" You have articulated it far more clearly in this post that in your original post. Your original question "I would like to know if her thoughts are similar to her "sorority sisters", or is your sense of community, race, and love; whether it is love for a man or family, different in each of you?" is not as clear. Really, this is not the same question that you have articulated in your most recent post. Initially you asked if we all share the same view rather than what our individual views are. Personally, I do not see the relationship between Soror Dunlap's cause and your second thought. Exactly what does agreeing with her position have to do with whether or not we have the same views on community, work and love? You have set them up as an either or in your question when the answers are going to be independent of each other. Furthermore, I do not know Soror Dunlap personally and could not begin to tell you what of her opinions are the same as her sisters. Frankly, I did not respond to your original post because the thought that 200,000 women would share the same view on too much of anything is naive. To me, the answer was obvious. Of course we represent a variety of opinions As you saw on our National Website, we have guiding principles, a common history and a five point programmatic thrust that we are all committed to furthering. We are individuals who share a common bond but we represent every walk of life, religion, race, profession and experience within our membership. We are a service organization committed to improving life with in the African American community and the country. Membership does not require we share any particular position on our personal lives.

As far as your question regarding relationships v. personal accomplishments are concerned, we have also discussed that in numerous threads. A search will yield these discussions as well.

Lastly, your second post was obnoxious and I suspect that was the intention since you were upset that your thread had no responses. Understand, however, that participation on the board does not require that anyone respond to any post. You cannot expect to insult us into responding. That will basically guarantee no one will be interested in engaging with you in a conversation. And logically, why would they? Who chooses to talk to people who talk down to them, mock them or insult them?

[Ideal08]

Originally posted by Nuyorican
I’m not the most intelligent person in the world, but I know where my intelligence lies. And I make it a point not to be vague, verbally or in the written word. Unfortunately, everyone expended more energy trying to tell me how obscure my statement was, where a small amount of that energy would have answered the question. If this was a point of pros and cons on a particular issue, we could trade words back and forth all day. However, this all stems from no one giving me a single thought on a not too difficult statement. It makes me wonder if you didn’t have a view one way or the other, and if that was the case; I would have accepted that.

Ladies of Delta Sigma Theta, let me apologize for even replying to this thread when it seems to be directed to you all. However, I feel compelled to reply. Carla, delete as you see fit. You know I won't be offended.

Nuyorican, you seem to have a sense of entitlement: you seem to feel as though you are entitled to a response from GCers. Why is that? Do you know how many threads get NO RESPONSE? So what? And then you get defensive behind the responses that you DO get. Something being vague is relative. Of course it wasn't vague to you, because it was YOUR thought. But how can you say it's not vague to someone else? If it was vague to them, it was vague to them, plain and simple. And you didn't accept people not having a view one way or another. Perhaps THAT'S why no one responded in the first place, because they didn't have a viewpoint to share. It's a waste of time to reply, "I don't care one way or another." And who are you to tell someone in what ways to expend their energy?

AND you had the nerve to insult people's posting patterns. How do you know that these women don't spend ALL day discussing "pressing issues" such as your own, and when they come to GC it is to unwind with FUN, SOCIAL topics? To get sarcastic and say, "Oh, that really makes for great rhetoric," is foul. After that, you shouldn't have even been looking for a response because what you said was insulting.

[lovelyivy84]

Originally posted by Nuyorican
I didn’t mean to insult anyone; though my last statement was a bit callous. Actually, I was just looking for anyone's thoughts. I just wanted a general consensus. How do you feel about community, race or love (not just for a man)? Are these issues equally paramount in your life; or does one take precedent over the other? I appreciate your response.

Okay let's be specific, since these questions are so clearly not vague. What do I think about love and race and community, gee....

Community is nice.

Race is a social construct.

Love is overrated.

That's about as specific as your questions were and all the answer you deserve.

CT4 ifyou want to delete my posts as well, feel free. They give as much real information as the question that was asked so I will not be offended at all.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by Nuyorican
. I'm in the process of preparing a paper on a research project that was done in 1999; called "Getting a Man or Getting Ahead - A Comparison of White and Black Sororities, authored by Alexandra Berkowitz and Irene Padavic". I'll give a short overview. The researchers visited two different campuses and interviewed women from white and black sororities. Their conclusion was that white sorority women in this sample regarded sorority membership as a way to lead a productive social life that they hoped would enable them to get a man.

Sounds like there was some sampling error there. I would hardly call that a valid comparison of "white" and "black" sororities because the sample was too small, for starters. I'm sure there are NPHC women who joined to meet men and NPC women who joined to do community service. Do you have any valid information and data to back this up, or are you just trusting this flawed data?

[Kimmie1913]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin


Sounds like there was some sampling error there. I would hardly call that a valid comparison of "white" and "black" sororities because the sample was too small, for starters. I'm sure there are NPHC women who joined to meet men and NPC women who joined to do community service. Do you have any valid information and data to back this up, or are you just trusting this flawed data?

Thank you! I did not even begin to address what I thought was wrong with that thought and original premise. It was a generalization (and a terrible one at that) that I found insulting to White sororities.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by Kimmie1913
Thank you! I did not even begin to address what I thought was wrong with that thought and original premise. It was a generalization (and a terrible one at that) that I found insulting to White sororities.

Well you ladies had enough issues to address with him, so I'll let it slide.

And if I joined to meet a man, I'd like to know where he is right now, because I have some dishes for him to do!