accepting of others

[lia05]

I'm not a big fan of the greek organization, and the instances of prejudice and bigotry are some of my biggest reasons for my point of view. I'm sending this in regards to the other threads and posts on here in which people were discussing the morality of ostracizing individuals because of sexual preference. It's really sad that sororities/fraternities add people to its list of who is good enough to be a part of the social group through judging others(prove me wrong if you can on this) on superficial, vain criteria, and then these are the same organizations imbedded with people who will shun other human beings based on asinine, superficial reasons such as radical/intellectual ideas, political agenda, sexual orientation, or whatever. the Greeks are well-known for their philanthropy, and they should be applauded for the effort to make this a better world to live in...but why is it so difficult to accept someone you call a Brother/Sister and to love each other unconditionally? Please, somebody enlighten me. I don't want to be disdainful in this world of ignorance, nor do I want to be ignorant in this world of disdain.

Lia

[kddani]

it's too early in the morning to tackle this post... BUT

aren't you doing the exact same thing in judging us all as greeks?

[winneythepooh7]

I second that observation Danielle. It is way too early for this.

[Kevin]

Lia, I'll ignore the hypocrisy in your post for my reply. You came here wanting an answer and I'll give you mine. Of course, this is how I feel, and it in no way reflects on anyone from any other Greek organization, including my own.

Yes, some of our chapters choose to excercise certain criteria for membership. There are certain clauses and rules within each organization that are setup to keep this sort of thing from happening. For example, I think basically all of us now have clauses in our governing documents that forbid racial discrimination (as opposed to the ones we had before the late 60's which required racial discrimination). I will admit, however, that many of these types of steps are more symbollic than anything else. And yes, there is some discrimination that does occur.

Most of our organizations require a vote by existing members for anyone to be voted in as a new member. My organization, for example, requires a unanimous vote for each new member twice. Why do people fail in these votes? All sorts of reasons. We have brothers of other races, we have brothers of all sorts of political backgrounds, basicallly all the stuff you mentioned. Why do we not vote someone in? For a variety of reasons. Could your listed reasons be something contributing? Maybe, we'll never know. A unanimous vote can be a tricky thing to pass -- although most do.

I'd say the most common reasons someone wouldn't make it in my chapter would include things like: Not a team player, got into a fight with an initiate, didn't show up for new member functions, lack of respect for alums, someone doesn't like the cut of their jib (Simpsons reference), etc.

Do some chapters do exactly what you suspect them of? No doubt! Does that mean you get to judge us all as being KKK youth groups? I don't think that's fair. I think you come off as a fairly intelligent individual, can you tell me what made you decide that about our organizations?

[KSigkid]

Just like any other organizations in any other parts of the world, you could easily judge the whole body on a few bad apples. However you'd be missing out on a lot.

For these few bad apples, there are literally thousands of Greeks who do accept their brothers and sisters, no matter what their backgrounds may be. To think that all of us are built to discriminate against others is to miss the point.

As others have said, it's too early for me to elaborate further, but please don't hesitate to PM me and I may be able to answer any specific questions you have on Greek Life. Maybe a little education on the subject would help.

[AlphaFrog]

On our campus, we look for diversity. We recruited one girl extra hard who was another race because we felt that she was a really well-rounded person. We also turned another girl away who was of a different race, but that had ABSOLUTLY nothing to do with why we didn't bid her.

I will admit that Recruitment can be superfical, but that's mainly because you have 3 minutes with each girl to decide if you want them as part of your life-long sisterhood. I'm sure you have a few girls you know that you would love to be in a life-long bond with and others that you'd rather chew your own arm off then have anything more to do with them then absolutly mandatory. Does this have anything to do with race, political views or any of the other characteristics you mentioned above? Think about that.

And as for sexual orientation...it's the Potential New Member's choice if they want to reveal this info, knowing that whether they're rushing a GLO, getting a job, running for office, etc...there WILL be people who will judge them for it. Is it right? No. Does it happen everywhere, including, but not limited to GLO's? Yes. We had a sister who was a lesbian, and in the end she ended up quitting, because it was a rather uncomfotable situation. (It's like putting a straight guy in an orginzation with nothing but pretty lesbians, he's going to feel at least a slight bit uncomfortable).

I hope you have an open enough mind to at least check out Greek Life at your school. If it's exactly what you expected, and not for you, you haven't lost anything. But if you are suprised to find something that you might want to be a part of, you've found a life-long bond. But if you choose to ignore it compleatly, you miss the oppertunity to be part of something potentially life-changing and great.

[aopinthesky]

Previous posters in this thread have said it adequately. I don't think you really want to be convinced of anything. Greek Letter Organization members are human, and prejudice (of all kinds) happens in our organizations despite efforts to stop it. We are private organizations, however, with the right to chose our members however we wish, using whatever criteria we wish. Because of that, you can never point to a particular potential member and say he/she was not bid because they are green, yellow, like dogs, drive a Ford, or whatever you think the reason is. You will never know, and speculation about it is equally unfair.

[Kevin]

Lia, I think we're all looking forward to hearing from you regardin why you think this way. Please let us know.

[KSUViolet06]

wow, 4a.m....somebody's pressed.

[ZHLyreGirl]

Maybe it's just me... but aren't most of those facts (the judgement, being superficial and other asinine resons/triats) part of the human race in general? I've met plenty of people of all ages, all varieties, all personalities and all group affilations who possess some of these characteristics. Butget this, we're human and therefore (Big presentation music please) We Are All DIFFERENT. we just have to remember that not all of us possess all of the traits in the same degree. I'll bet if you picked a certin age range, lets for instance say college girls, you would find that all this crud isn't just confined to GLO's.

And yes i would like to hear you're point of view as well, considering you don't really seem to have an open opinion.

Back to being a reader now ...

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

The previous posters have done a much more eloquent job than I can so I'll just add a few comments. I agree with Dani, you are doing the exact same thing you say we do which really makes you no better.

It's interesting that you say you aren't a big fan yet you have obviously spent a lot of time studying us for some reason.

And unless you've been a member how can you know what criteria we use for membership? Membership in any org is a two way decision by the group and the individual. The individual could be just as superficial (and a lot are) in choosing what group he/she wants to be part of.

And most private organizations have some type of requirements for joining.

[Tom Earp]

I just love how how everyone jumps on this, and this individual has not written back!

Just one post only! ???

Yes, I know, she has to see what is posted.

There are many posts to the positive of Greeks.

[lia05]

1. "I will admit that Recruitment can be superfical, but that's mainly because you have 3 minutes with each girl to decide if you want them as part of your life-long sisterhood"--AlphaFrog
...It probably took me around 3 minutes or so to type the first message, and a few extra minutes for this one. What do you know about me based on what it is you can "see/imply" about me and what I have told you so far? (Note: this is not a personal attack on AlphaFrog's comments; I just want to know what everyone thinks about this.)

2."...you don't really seem to have an open opinion"--ZHLyreGirl
...My intentions here are not so focused on having a closed-mind. Obviously I would go to some anti-greek chat forum if I wanted that instead of come here where most are supportive of/in the sororities/fraternities. I just want an open understanding of it all, and what better way to try to get that than to ask people who will have different perspectives.

3. "wow, 4a.m....somebody's pressed."--JocelynC
...I really do appreciate all of the insightful comments everybody sent to me. And this one. I'm so glad you have such a busy life and could still offer those generous words of wisdom.

4. "you have obviously spent a lot of time studying us for some reason."--SmartBlondeGPhB
...I just want to know where other people are coming from. Still, I'd hardly call this extensive research on the subject--starting a thread, talking to friends (including members and non-members), and observing what goes on at least on my own college campus. I'm not here to prove anyone wrong. I'm just curious, and so I ask.

5. "For these few bad apples, there are literally thousands of Greeks who do accept their brothers and sisters, no matter what their backgrounds may be. To think that all of us are built to discriminate against others is to miss the point."--KSigkid

This is something I will wholeheartedly agree with. Believe me, I
never missed this point.

6. "We had a sister who was a lesbian, and in the end she ended up quitting, because it was a rather uncomfotable situation. (It's like putting a straight guy in an orginzation with nothing but pretty lesbians, he's going to feel at least a slight bit uncomfortable)."--AlphaFrog

One more question to ponder: Who is uncomfortable, the straight guy or the lesbians? Perhaps both??

7. "can you tell me what made you decide that about our organizations?"--ktsnake
Because believe it or not, I live in the real world. Before I started college, I was so excited about leaving home, starting a new chapter in my life, and gaining a better perspective on the world. College was my best opportunity for that, I thought. Then I got there and made my attempt at what I had come to do. Through all of this hectic but amazing experience, I've made many friends who I will probably remain friends with throughout my lifetime, but I didn't need an organization to do that for me. I didn't need a rule book or government documentation to tell me who I should or should not accept. I never based any of these friendships on "knowing" somebody for 3 minutes and then having a vote with the rest of the crowd about whether my beliefs that this was a worthwhile individual was correct. So to answer your question as best as I can, it may not be the actual organizations that I am against but the conformity and importance of popularity on it all.
---

Lia

[TSteven]

Originally posted by lia05
So to answer your question as best as I can, it may not be the actual organizations that I am against but the conformity and importance of popularity on it all.
---

Lia

How nice for you.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Interesting, I would never have considered myself "popular" when I joined......

Frankly your opinion doesn't sound much different from other anti-greeks that come on here and claim to want to understand.

And whether you meant it to or not, it sounds a bit bitter too.