Vintage Pins

[honeychile]

This is certainly not an advertisement; it's more like a warning. For those who comb ebay for GLO pins to rescue, there is also a company who specializes in finding pins and selling them. It's not an auction, they set the price.

I didn't know if others knew about it.

[gphib_95]

What's the name of this company? Does it have a website?

[honeychile]

http://www.vintagefraternitypins.com

[wptw]

Hi Honeychile,

Yes, that site has been around for maybe 3 years. It was started by a collector who I guess figured this was a better outlet for his "non-keeper" pins than ebay.

Most collectors have their "keeper" pins, and then they have a lot of pins that are either redundant, or are inferior to the "keeper" pins in some way, or simply don't fall into the "theme" of their collection. When you see collectors selling pins on ebay, that's usually what's going on (not raw profiteering as most people initially assume). They're liquidating the less valuable pins in their collection to fund the purchase of more valuable pins. That's how collections evolve.. just like any collection does, I suppose.

And that's also how a lot of pins find their way to new collectors, to members of the GLO, or back to the GLO headquarters. There's sort of a constant circulation that benefits everyone.

The owner of VFP.com seems to be a good guy and it doesn't look to me like he's trying to exploit the ebay phenom and mass market those badges. That wouldn't make much sense. His prices are about 50% higher than the ebay market price, so that really wouldn't be a plan for success.

If I were to guess, I'd say he just likes working with the various badges and this is a fun way to combine his hobby with a little bit of profit. The site really isn't geared toward collectors anyway, because frankly the badges there are overpriced and nothing special. But it's a good alternative for those who can't wait around for the badge they want to show up on ebay.

Hope that info is helpful.

wptw

[sophistAKAted10]

But do you think it is right to sell badges over the internet?

[Tippiechick]

I know of no one (correct me if I am wrong, GChatters...) who LIKES seeing their badges sold on the internet. Some have the position that they will not engage in any transaction that might encourage the sale of badges. Others feel that they would rather "save" badges than see them go to non-Greek pin collectors.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by sophistAKAted10
But do you think it is right to sell badges over the internet?

That depends. Some GLOs never actually sell their badges to their members. They do charge for the manufacturer, and distribution, but ownership is always retained by that GLO. In those cases, the argument can be made that selling badges is selling stolen merchandise.

[AGDee]

We have a sister who has purchased at least 14 badges off of Ebay and sent them all to our International Headquarters.

Red and Buff Roses to her!

Dee

[honeychile]

Originally posted by AGDee
We have a sister who has purchased at least 14 badges off of Ebay and sent them all to our International Headquarters.

Red and Buff Roses to her!

Dee

Indeed!!

I understand collector's, but the reality is that most GLOs have a clause that states that pins must be returned to their (inter-)National Headquarters, should the owner die or not pass the pin to a legacy. That would make buying a pin NOT from your own GLO receiving stolen property - morally, if not legally.

I'm always happy to hear of Keepers of the Key, Guardians of the Diamonds, and other such groups!

[GtownGirl98]

So this got me to thinking one day... isn't selling badges really selling stolen property? So I asked my boss (who is a lawyer) to help me argue this case... we came down to this...

A. It would be really hard to argue the case because those clauses aren't made known to all. For example, the little old man who dies and his evil children sell all his goods at an estate auction (not everyone is evil... just being funny)... unless the children had it written in a will or stated elsewhere, how would they know that it would be stolen?

B. Those clauses have only been around for most groups for the last 20 years, any Badges sold that are dated before that, might not fall under the clauses.

There were a few other points that he brought up, but I don't remember them all right now. The only way I think that we could stop the sell of badges and consider them as stolen or fenced goods would be to make the public aware that they are fenced if sold and that you can go to jail or pay fines for purchasing such goods.

[wptw]

GtownGirl98, your lawyer boss is right. I was saying exactly the same thing two and a half years ago. And even if the GLO really did maintain ownership through some sort of official lease (which they don’t), that agreement would not survive the death of the original owner and be binding on the heirs and assigns - the people that inherit the estate. I suppose the GLO could show up at the probate hearing and make a claim, but that would be a pretty ambitious project! And anyway, they would need some kind of a signed lease agreement – not just a page from the quarterly magazine outlining the GLO’s policy on badge ownership.

Trying to argue that GLO badges bought at flea markets and estate sales are actually stolen property is just laughable. Wishful thinking.

Originally posted by sophistAKAted10
But do you think it is right to sell badges over the internet?

Yes. Because it’s not illegal. And because the people in the ebay community who find it morally offensive are in a microscopic minority. And because I don’t imagine myself in a position to dictate to my fellow capitalists what’s right and what’s wrong.

wptw

[Lady Pi Phi]

I think, if our respective organizations want to protect our badges, it's impotant that new members are told right from the start that badges are to be returned to HQ upon death/passed to a legacy/buried with the owner.
I also think it's important that chapters go after girls who depledge/disaffiliate from their organization to get the badge back.
If more members respect this, then fewer badges will go to the collectors.

[ISUKappa]

Originally posted by wptw
. . . Yes. Because it’s not illegal. And because the people in the ebay community who find it morally offensive are in a microscopic minority. And because I don’t imagine myself in a position to dictate to my fellow capitalists what’s right and what’s wrong.

wptw

What I don't appreciate are the sellers who overly inflate selling prices and/or have ghost bidders driving up the prices because they now know that members are willing to pay almost anything to retain their badges. The people who jump on the badge-selling bandwagon because they know there is plenty of money to be made on it. I know not everyone does this but there are a few who do. Some people may consider that good business, but I guess I'm not one of them.

What I do appreciate are those sellers who are willing to work with the organizations and buyers and can agree on a fair price that benefits everyone.

There is a recent success story posted in another Kappa forum where a member had realized that the two badges being sold in the same auction were her grandmother's sisters'. She notified our HQ who confirmed their membership, got in touch with the seller and explained the situation. They were able to reach an agreement and the badges were returned to the family.

[wptw]

Well, shill bidding actually IS against the ebay TOS, so I agree that's wrong. Although I can't say I really see much of it. Most auctions sell at or near typical market price, so I think most of the bidding is absolutely legit. Collectors have a reputation to protect within their little community, and dealers who regularly sell GLO badges rely on repeat business, so they're less likely to pull any funny business. The ones to watch out for are the ones who only have one or two badges to sell.

As for overly inflated prices, I'm not sure how a seller could overly inflate a sales price on an open auction site. The final bid price is by nature the market price. If the start price or reserve is too high, it won't sell. So how is it inflated?

There are a lot of good sellers out there who will work with the orgs to return important badges, or to return stolen badges to their rightful owners. But make no mistake - they're still selling badges to make a living.

[sarcasm] God forbid someone in the good old U S of A should jump on a moneymaking bandwagon! [/sarcasm]

Seriously, why is it wrong for someone to make money selling a GLO badge?

wptw

[ISUKappa]

That's why the emphasis is on I. Those are my individual beliefs. And I said I know not everyone does it, there are plenty of good sellers out there--but there are the bad ones, too.

By inflating I mean the people who obviously haven't done research and set the reserve price for a plain gold badge that's under 10 years old over $50. You can buy a new one for cheaper than that. Why bother bidding on it? Those are the people jumping on the badge bandwagon. They haven't done any research on it, aren't collectors, they just want a way to make a quick buck. And someone will bid on it because there will always be that person who's just discovered eBay and sees their badge for sale and thinks "I need to get that before someone else does" without realizing what's really going on. (FWIW I don't appreciate irresponsible bidders either)

God forbid people look beyond money for once.