Historical sites you’ve been to or want to go to thread

[Phrozen Sands]

What historical sites have you been to or would like to go to?

I’ve been to the Lorraine Motel museum where MLK was assassinated. I want to see the book depository and the spot where JFK was assassinated. Added to that, I want to pay a visit to the Audubon Ballroom where Malcolm X was assassinated. All morbid, but I still want to see them.

[cheerfulgreek]

I really would like to see the Holocaust museum in Washington DC.

[honeychile]

Fascinating, PhrozenSands! Am I imagining things, or is there a museum at the Lorraine Motel now? Cheerfulgreek, I've been the Holocaust Museum a few times. It's absolutely horrifying but awesome. May their memories be a blessing.

I started a post about where I've been, as my parents were both history fans, and it's rather long, and it would probably be boring to most people. But here are a few highlights:

I've stood where Lennon was murdered - sadly, 118 days before he was killed. If you've heard my John Lennon story, you know how much that means to me.

I went to two semi-private receptions at the White House - MUCH different from the tour. Never made it to the third floor, though!

I've held the Day Book from Fort Pitt and saw where one of my ancestors signed for his pay during the Revolution, the general store where another ancestor enlisted in Harper's Ferry, and pretty much most of the Lincoln Assassination sites. We were in Spotsylvania, VA when they were excavating, and I have a few of the minie balls that were unearthed.

So many, many more places yet to see!

[carnation]

Westminster Abbey.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Fascinating, PhrozenSands! Am I imagining things, or is there a museum at the Lorraine Motel now? Cheerfulgreek, I've been the Holocaust Museum a few times. It's absolutely horrifying but awesome. May their memories be a blessing.

I started a post about where I've been, as my parents were both history fans, and it's rather long, and it would probably be boring to most people. But here are a few highlights:

I've stood where Lennon was murdered - sadly, 118 days before he was killed. If you've heard my John Lennon story, you know how much that means to me.

I went to two semi-private receptions at the White House - MUCH different from the tour. Never made it to the third floor, though!

I've held the Day Book from Fort Pitt and saw where one of my ancestors signed for his pay during the Revolution, the general store where another ancestor enlisted in Harper's Ferry, and pretty much most of the Lincoln Assassination sites. We were in Spotsylvania, VA when they were excavating, and I have a few of the minie balls that were unearthed.

So many, many more places yet to see!

I have never read your John Lennon story, but would love to read it. That is SO crazy that you stood where he was shot before he was shot. I need to watch a documentary about that because I still don’t understand why he was shot, or anything about Chapman. I hear he was an obsessed fan, then I hear there were other reasons behind the shooting. I’m going to put that on my documentaries to watch list this weekend.

Amazing you were able to see the inside of the White House. So, I often times have gone to vet conferences in Washington D.C. and I’ve seen the White House from further away, and it looked smaller from the outside IRL, than on TV. Unfortunately, I was not able to see any of the museums there.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I have never read your John Lennon story, but would love to read it.

Thanks for asking! The original link doesn't work, here's the article that was in the PG-Press:

"I've been a fan of the Beatles since I was a little girl, and have won many trivia contests on them. In 1980, I was in NYC with my parents, and decided that I was going to do my best to meet John Lennon. The funny part is that I really had no intent of being a groupie or anything, I just wanted to meet a Beatle, but especially John. On 12 August 1980, I put on a little yellow sundress and 3" heels (Remember Candies? Yep!), and to my embarrassment, my parents came with me as we took a cab to the Dakota Building.

The Dakota is a squared-doughnut shape, with a large arch leading to a fountain in the middle. The entrance is on W. 72nd Street, and at the time, you could walk right into the Courtyard, and even sit on the edge of the fountain in the middle, if you'd like. The main entry was almost into the Courtyard, on the right and up a three steps - very small, in the scheme of things. I decided to hang out on the outer perimeter of the building, but at the entrance. My parents took pictures, I took pictures, we all tried to figure out who lived where, where Rosemary's Baby was filmed, etc. For three hours, I patiently waited, walking back & forth, until one of the guards waved me inside. My dad stood within sight while I talked to the security guard, right inside. He asked me who I was waiting for, and I said, "John Lennon & Yoko Ono." I was savvy enough to know to include her! The guard told me that I had just missed them, that they were recording a new album, and probably wouldn't be back until after 6pm, have dinner, then return to the studio. Our plane was due to leave by then! Seeing my disappointment, the guard asked if I'd like to leave a message, and I said sure. Somehow, I found the right words to say, to thank John for music which had enriched my life, and to thank Yoko for being such a constant in John's life (okay, I wasn't wild about that part). I ended by saying something to the effect that life can be strange, but if they found themselves near Pittsburgh, they should know that they have a friend there. It wasn't mushy or groupie-ish, more of a letter of thanks and I got to write it on Dakota stationary! I watched the guard put it in John's letterbox, thanked the guard and left with disappointment.

You know the next part - John & Yoko made a last album, "Double Fantasy", and less than a month later, John was shot & killed. He stumbled up those same three steps, and said, "I'm shot," as he collapsed exactly where I wrote to him. I was in a daze, except for one small thing: at the very end of "Starting Over", you hear an airport-type PA system voice saying, "Love Airlines, Flight 12, Pittsburgh." Hmmm.... Also, the gates to the Dakota were closed at that point, and a new security station built on the outside of the gate.

About a year or two later, a book came out, detailing each day of the last year of John's life. On 12 August, he & Yoko came back from the studio, picked up a solitary note from a fan (!), had dinner, relaxed, then returned to the recording studio to finish "Starting Over". In the next few years, whenever I would talk to those who make their money on Beatle history, I would tell them the story and ask their opinion. Every one of them said that was exactly something John would have done - put a little "hello" in a song without being overt about it. It made me feel good, I admit. I should also say that I know a couple local disc jockeys (formerly with 3WS) and they REALLY felt that John had been saying hello. One morning, I heard a team of "Beatleologists" on the radio fielding questions about the Beatles, and asked people to call in. I did, told my story, and they were seriously impressed. One of them actually said, "You know, you got the best of the deal - a lot of people who had met John thought he was a real a**hole!" A few more years went by, and these same Beatleologists were on my favorite radio station again. After some banter, the one said, "Hey, does that chick who thinks she was mentioned in "Starting Over" still listen?" My dj friend said, "Melissa, call in NOW!!!" so I did. The guy told me that he had been at a studio party, talked to Yoko Ono, and thought he'd mention my story. She immediately said, "I remember her! She wrote such a nice letter, instead of the usual groupie sh*t, so when we went back to the studio that night, we thought we'd put a little mention in there. John figured that, if she really was a fan, she'd know it was for her. Wasn't her name something like Melinda, Melissa...? I know she lived in Pittsburgh." The guy said, "She knows!"

So, it wasn't my imagination! If you listen to the very end of "Starting Over" (about 3:24 in the song) you can hear it, and it was confirmed by Yoko Ono herself! To this, I have never met a Beatle, but, as the man said, I may have gotten the best part of the deal!"

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Amazing you were able to see the inside of the White House. So, I often times have gone to vet conferences in Washington D.C. and I’ve seen the White House from further away, and it looked smaller from the outside IRL, than on TV. Unfortunately, I was not able to see any of the museums there.

I know what you mean. But as you pass the gates to the WH, it looks bigger with each step. The rooms are amazingly large on the public floors, but even the smaller rooms on the ground floor have such high ceilings that they look huge.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by carnation

Westminster Abbey.

PEA GREEN!!
I would love to see the UK before I die!

[carnation]

My husband might agree to go with me next summer. There are a lot of Plantagenet and Stewart/Douglas sites I want to visit.

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Fascinating, PhrozenSands! Am I imagining things, or is there a museum at the Lorraine Motel now?

Yeah, so the hotel itself was turned into a museum. The room MLK was staying in at the time of the shooting, they kept it the same way it looked when went onto the balcony. You can even see the cup he used that at one time had coffee in it that he was drinking before he went onto the balcony. They also have the gun James Earl Ray used and it shows that the bullet that struck MLK didn’t match the gun of Ray. Definitely and FBI conspiracy. Same way the Kennedys and Malcolm X were taken out.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Thanks for asking! The original link doesn't work, here's the article that was in the PG-Press:

"I've been a fan of the Beatles since I was a little girl, and have won many trivia contests on them. In 1980, I was in NYC with my parents, and decided that I was going to do my best to meet John Lennon. The funny part is that I really had no intent of being a groupie or anything, I just wanted to meet a Beatle, but especially John. On 12 August 1980, I put on a little yellow sundress and 3" heels (Remember Candies? Yep!), and to my embarrassment, my parents came with me as we took a cab to the Dakota Building.

The Dakota is a squared-doughnut shape, with a large arch leading to a fountain in the middle. The entrance is on W. 72nd Street, and at the time, you could walk right into the Courtyard, and even sit on the edge of the fountain in the middle, if you'd like. The main entry was almost into the Courtyard, on the right and up a three steps - very small, in the scheme of things. I decided to hang out on the outer perimeter of the building, but at the entrance. My parents took pictures, I took pictures, we all tried to figure out who lived where, where Rosemary's Baby was filmed, etc. For three hours, I patiently waited, walking back & forth, until one of the guards waved me inside. My dad stood within sight while I talked to the security guard, right inside. He asked me who I was waiting for, and I said, "John Lennon & Yoko Ono." I was savvy enough to know to include her! The guard told me that I had just missed them, that they were recording a new album, and probably wouldn't be back until after 6pm, have dinner, then return to the studio. Our plane was due to leave by then! Seeing my disappointment, the guard asked if I'd like to leave a message, and I said sure. Somehow, I found the right words to say, to thank John for music which had enriched my life, and to thank Yoko for being such a constant in John's life (okay, I wasn't wild about that part). I ended by saying something to the effect that life can be strange, but if they found themselves near Pittsburgh, they should know that they have a friend there. It wasn't mushy or groupie-ish, more of a letter of thanks and I got to write it on Dakota stationary! I watched the guard put it in John's letterbox, thanked the guard and left with disappointment.

You know the next part - John & Yoko made a last album, "Double Fantasy", and less than a month later, John was shot & killed. He stumbled up those same three steps, and said, "I'm shot," as he collapsed exactly where I wrote to him. I was in a daze, except for one small thing: at the very end of "Starting Over", you hear an airport-type PA system voice saying, "Love Airlines, Flight 12, Pittsburgh." Hmmm.... Also, the gates to the Dakota were closed at that point, and a new security station built on the outside of the gate.

About a year or two later, a book came out, detailing each day of the last year of John's life. On 12 August, he & Yoko came back from the studio, picked up a solitary note from a fan (!), had dinner, relaxed, then returned to the recording studio to finish "Starting Over". In the next few years, whenever I would talk to those who make their money on Beatle history, I would tell them the story and ask their opinion. Every one of them said that was exactly something John would have done - put a little "hello" in a song without being overt about it. It made me feel good, I admit. I should also say that I know a couple local disc jockeys (formerly with 3WS) and they REALLY felt that John had been saying hello. One morning, I heard a team of "Beatleologists" on the radio fielding questions about the Beatles, and asked people to call in. I did, told my story, and they were seriously impressed. One of them actually said, "You know, you got the best of the deal - a lot of people who had met John thought he was a real a**hole!" A few more years went by, and these same Beatleologists were on my favorite radio station again. After some banter, the one said, "Hey, does that chick who thinks she was mentioned in "Starting Over" still listen?" My dj friend said, "Melissa, call in NOW!!!" so I did. The guy told me that he had been at a studio party, talked to Yoko Ono, and thought he'd mention my story. She immediately said, "I remember her! She wrote such a nice letter, instead of the usual groupie sh*t, so when we went back to the studio that night, we thought we'd put a little mention in there. John figured that, if she really was a fan, she'd know it was for her. Wasn't her name something like Melinda, Melissa...? I know she lived in Pittsburgh." The guy said, "She knows!"

So, it wasn't my imagination! If you listen to the very end of "Starting Over" (about 3:24 in the song) you can hear it, and it was confirmed by Yoko Ono herself! To this, I have never met a Beatle, but, as the man said, I may have gotten the best part of the deal!"

Wait.. so, honeychile, call me dumb, but was that you or someone else who wrote that letter? I read this like, three times, trying to figure out who wrote it. And then, I listened to “Starting Over” a few times until I could hear the announcement in the background. It’s very faint. Ya know, in all the years I’ve listened to that song, I never could hear that part until you mentioned it now. Maybe I heard it, and just didn’t pay attention. I almost feel really awkward asking who wrote the letter. Either way, I was just amazed that the two are connected. After reading this several times, and then listening to the song, it’s like really amazing how he acknowledged the letter in the song. After reading your post, it’s more than obvious he was responding to that letter. Such an amazing story. Thank you for posting this, honeychile. I never knew this was posted before.

[cheerfulgreek]

So, there was a documentary about The Rolling Stones on Netflix that I watched. It was some kind of festival. It was like the last festival of the 1960s. It took place in 1969, and some guy high on something had a knife, and some motorcycle gang killed him at the concert. Apparently, Mick Jagger didn’t know what was happening, but later saw it on a tape. They had hired the biker gang for security but didn’t know they’d end up killing someone. Does anyone here remember when that happened? Did they show it on the news?

The 60s was already chaotic, and that festival really ended the 60s, highlighting how bad and violent that decade was. My mom told me the 60s was a bad decade, but it was prosperous, unlike now.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

The 60s was already chaotic, and that festival really ended the 60s, highlighting how bad and violent that decade was. My mom told me the 60s was a bad decade, but it was prosperous, unlike now.

You know--most of my friends and I think it wasn't very chaotic at all. In some cities, like San Francisco--yes. If you watch 60s news clips now, you would think that all anyone did back then was protest in their hippie clothes. I lived in Houston and went to a big, racially mixed high school and although some people did drugs there, it wasn't any wilder than any other period in my life. Friends from the other Houston high schools have said the same.

Same for the 70s. I went to 3 big SEC universities and I saw one protest the whole time (7 people attended.) The only people who wore hippie clothes were the botany majors and they were growing their own weed around campus.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by carnation

You know--most of my friends and I think it wasn't very chaotic at all. In some cities, like San Francisco--yes. If you watch 60s news clips now, you would think that all anyone did back then was protest in their hippie clothes. I lived in Houston and went to a big, racially mixed high school and although some people did drugs there, it wasn't any wilder than any other period in my life. Friends from the other Houston high schools have said the same.

Same for the 70s. I went to 3 big SEC universities and I saw one protest the whole time (7 people attended.) The only people who wore hippie clothes were the botany majors and they were growing their own weed around campus.

True, and I see what you’re saying, carnation. It just seems like with Vietnam going on, and all the really important leaders in the US at the time were being assassinated, it just appeared to be really chaotic. I wish I could have lived back then and lived that history, the music especially. It just seems like music from that time period (the late 60s into the early 70s) had noticeable overlaps? It just seems like the transition back then seemed to reflect changes in societal moods. I mean, you’d know better than I would, but it just seems like the Vietnam War was a huge factor in the late 60s. I also think losing Bobby Kennedy was a major turning point. And then the hippies and the experimental generation of the early 70s seemed to have calmed things down. The music in the early 70s compared to the late 60s just seemed like it reflected that.

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

The 60s was already chaotic, and that festival really ended the 60s, highlighting how bad and violent that decade was. My mom told me the 60s was a bad decade, but it was prosperous, unlike now.

Originally Posted by carnation

You know--most of my friends and I think it wasn't very chaotic at all. In some cities, like San Francisco--yes. If you watch 60s news clips now, you would think that all anyone did back then was protest in their hippie clothes. I lived in Houston and went to a big, racially mixed high school and although some people did drugs there, it wasn't any wilder than any other period in my life. Friends from the other Houston high schools have said the same.

Same for the 70s. I went to 3 big SEC universities and I saw one protest the whole time (7 people attended.) The only people who wore hippie clothes were the botany majors and they were growing their own weed around campus.

I wasn’t around in the 60s either, but the differences I’ve notice between the chaotic mess of now vs. back then is folks started movements and not moments. A moment last a few days to a week, and then as soon as folks start losing something of value, they stop protesting and go back to their everyday lives.

Back in the 60s, folks protested and kept protesting until they saw changes. For example, I’ll use these mass school shootings. As soon as a shooting on a large scale happens, students do these short-term walkouts, but then come back to school two days later. If you’re going to protest, don’t come back to school until they do something about the damn guns. I’d even go as far as not paying property taxes to add to a movement. Yeah, you could lose your property and you might have to homeschool your kid, but if a movement like that was done on a mass scale, it couldn’t be ignored. They’d have to submit. But the downside of it, sacrifices would have to be made. You’d have to give something up. Folks won’t make sacrifices like that today. They would in the 60s, though.