Issues

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by sadeluv in "greek Activities":
African-Americans love themselves!!! I resent the statement from "12dn94dst." Who are you to say that the entire Black race does not love it/themselves! Do you know all of the Black people personally? No, you don't. It is not wise to make unintelligent statements like that. Everybody I know love themselves, and they are Black.

State the facts. If you don't know what you're talking about, save us that perception of yourself, which will be a bad perception of you if you keep making statements like that.

Oh but I do know what I'm talking about because I see it everyday. I'm speaking as a whole, not individually. I LOVE MY PEOPLE, BUT ALL OF MY PEOPLE DO NOT SHARE MY FEELINGS. I don't think you know all Black people anymore that I do, but I know the statistics. I also know what I see. I know how some Black people have asked me "So you think you're better than I am just because you have a degree?" I know how much that hurt me. I know how my cousins got shot by another Black youth over some drug bull shit. I know I hear black men and women call each other niggers and bitches and whores. I know I can't turn on the news without hearing about Black people killing each other. I see little Black girls cry in the store because they want a white Barbie doll instead of the Black one because the white one is "prettier." Black people have a serious crab syndrome going. Do you know what that is? Have you seen a bucket of live crabs? They're all trying to get out but they can't because they're fighting each other. The ones that make progress are being pulled down by the ones below them. And you want to know why I say that Black people do not love themselves? The examples above are why and the statistics below are too. The leading causes of our deaths are things that, for the most part, we inflict on ourselves as opposed to the leading causes for whites which are mostly developed health issues.


From CDC National Center for HIV, STD and TB Prevention, 1998 special data run:

AIDS Cases as of 1998, numbers are per 100,000 people:
Black Women: 54
White Women: 3
Hispanic Women: 17
Black Men: 145
White Males: 20
Hisanic Males: 67
These were contracted mostly through unprotected sex and injected drug use.


Leading causes of death by race and age from the CDC's National Vital Statistics reports, June 30, 1999

Blacks 15-24
#1 Homicides/legal interevtion
#2 Accidents
#3 Suicide

Whites 15-24:
#1 Accidents
#2 Suicides
#3 Homicides/legal intervention

Black Males 15-24:
#1 Homicides/legal intervention
#2 Accidents
#3 Suicides

White Males 15-24:
#1 Accidents
#2 Suicide
#3 Homicide/legal intervention

Black Females 15-24:
#1 Accidents
#2 Homicides
#3 Heart Disease

White Females 15-24:
#1 Accidents
#2 Suicide
#3 Malignant Tumors (Cancers)


Blacks age 25-44
#1 HIV/AIDS
#2 Heart Disease
#3 Accidents

Whites age 25-44:
#1 Accidents
#2 Cancers
#3 Heart Disease

Black Males Age 25-44:
#1 HIV/AIDS
#2 Homicide/legal intervention
#3 Accidents

White Males ages 25-44:
#1 Accidents
#2 Suicide
#3 Heart Disease

Black Females ages 25-44:
#1 Cancers
#2 HIV/AIDS
#3 Heart Disease

White Females ages 25-44:
#1 Cancers
#2 Accidents
#3 Heart Disease


Interesting, ain't it.


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Kelli
12-DN-94
SSU c/o 1997

[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited June 13, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited June 13, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited June 13, 2000).]

[CrimsonTide4]

Congratulations Soror Kelli on a thorough job of presenting the facts of our world as Black Americans.

I would have to agree that Blacks as a whole do not love ourselves. If we love each other, how come we have fathers making babies but not taking care of our babies, not raising our babies, etc. We have parents sending kids to school when they need a babysitter but have not taught them the basics such as their name and how to treat others with respect. I know this because I am a TEACHER! I see this everyday and I teach HIGH SCHOOL! (not yelling just emphasizing)

Going back to another one of your points, why is that my family was proud of me for graduating and being a teacher, but not as proud of my cousin for getting out of federal prison for selling drugs to our kids. A lot of people in my family think that I talk white, but that cannot be further from the truth but that hurt me. By them saying that, they are determined to keep me down in the bottom with them. Why can't I rise to the top and they be happy for me??

[Serenity]

Excellent work, Kelli! Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow. How can we improve conditions if we choose to ignore them?!

------------------
Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity
Sigma Lambda Upsilon: Hasta La Muerte!

Of all the problems plaguing the African American comunity, why did the example have to be an African American delinquent father? Just wondering.

[12dn94dst]

I think most times in families where a parent is delinquent, it's a father. But you're right, is should be noted that there are families where the mother is delinquent and Black men are holding down the single parent role.

Originally posted by sahkrates:
Of all the problems plaguing the African American comunity, why did the example have to be an African American delinquent father? Just wondering.

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Kelli
12-DN-94
SSU c/o 1997

[CrimsonTide4]

Sahkrates,
you are correct. I did not mean to slight the fathers. We see Black men who are truly the head of their families and who are hanging in their when the mother runs out.

I applaud all who are helping our people and our BLACK families.

12dn94dst,
You are still relating mostly of what YOU see from your perception. Yes those things happen. If you are constantly looking for things like that, you will see that, because you want to see that. Statistics? I'm not impressed, especially those. Giving statistics is a cheap played out way to attempt to establish credibility. They can easily be manipulated and misleading. The Crab Syndrome scenario has been beat to the ground to the point of being a cliche. Why do we constantly allow our conversation be consumed with mediocre elements like statistics and cliches. We gotta do better than that. If we continue to make statements like "Blacks don't love themselves" we are not any different from the brothas killing each other. Tell me something we can do to help the solution! Stop talking about it, Be about it! That's my whole point!

[12dn94dst]

I don't look for the negative. I prefer to look for the positive but I don't live with blinders on because of that. I provided the statistics because you asked for them. I have no reason to manipulate them. See for yourself: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/fastats.htm

You're right, everyone's perception is different. But tell me this, on who's perception should I base my opinion? I can't base it on your perception or anyone else's because I don't see things the same way as you or anyone else.

You want to know what I'm doing to help change the statistics? Let's start with the HIV/AIDS issue. I carry several condoms with me everywhere. Do you? I use said condoms when I have sex whether my partner wants to use them or not. Do you? I mentor jr. high aged kids. I let them know there is more to life than the streets. I let the know that it is possible to make it out of adverse situations and be successful. I let them know the dangers of unprotected sex and drug use. And most importantly, I let them know it's their RESPONSIBILITY to help someone else as I have helped them. I'm not going to mention the work I do on behalf of my Sorority. That's part of what I'm doing.

Making a statement like "Blacks don't love each other," is not the same as Black killing each other on the streets unless you're not doing anything to make changes. It's stating a reality. Yes, the Crab Synrdome may be cliche, but it's a true one. Having said that, where do you fit in? Are you a part of the problem, going through life with blinders on, or are you part of the solution?

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Kelli
12-DN-94
SSU c/o 1997

12dn94dst,

Thanks for your expedient response. Just for accurate recollection, I NEVER asked for redundant statistics. My intent was not to accuse you of manipulating statistics, apparently you weren't involved in developing the survey. Just because it's posted on the Internet or in a book does not mean that we can use that information as a beacon of light and something to base our problems on, especially in America.

You are absolutely right! The only perception for me to have is my own. Nevertheless, do you think it is fair to make generalizing statements based on only my perceptions? You are an adult and you do what you want to do, but I've learned not to do that because it discredits your credibility. If your credibility isn't good, people are going to completely disregard what you say.

To answer your question, I am and always strive to be, apart of the solution. I'm not gonna sit here and disclose to you personal information like where I go or what I do when I have sex. I don't have to prove anything to some unknown identity on the Internet. Nevertheless,I will say that you and I have crossed similar paths as they relate to the solution. I try to stay in the realm of educating the youth in my community and family.

I am all for recognizing my reality and making change; I just spend more time making a change, as opposed spending most of my time recognizing the the problem.

We appear to have found common ground, which is good. I will say that I have enjoyed the conversation, and I will look forward to more of your responses.

I guess persception is everything. When i looked at the list i noticed the significant number of times suicide shows up in the top three. Its alarmingly one to many times.

Self acceptance is an issue with most of the younger generations within the U.S. Keli, you used the barbie doll as an example. Many women look in the mirror and do not like what reflects back at them - be it color, hair texture, hair color, weight, height. Our socity is teaching our children that to be considered beautiful you have to look like a barbie, a super model. Blonde, blue eyed, straight long hair (or wavy if that's the current style), and lets see the measurements of 36-26-34, oh and normally when it comes to intelligence - well "they just have to look pretty".

Self esteem is something hard fough on all fronts. As i look in the mirror i face it every day of my life. Deep down, you still have that yearing to be excepted no matter what progress you make. Unforunitly, suicide rates are a direct preportion to self worth. Many feel they've reached the end of what they can give to the world, what worth they have to offer, and that their existance means nothing.

I don't have answers, but I know its not just a problem with in one cultural group of the united states.

[prettygyrl]

SadeLuv I just want to say that a12deltanudst is not making generalizations. Black People as whole really have a poor sense of self love. When you look at other races who have been through similar things such as we have(such as jewish people, Indians) and you see that for the most part as a whole they are better off than us still today. That has alot to do with the fact that they can come together and respect each other and be strong as a race. HIspanics and Asians come to this country doing better than us also. They are all less likely to look down on each other and marry outside their race and dog each other as we are. Regardless of what White people do at this point in our lives until WE as a people become stronger then WE will always be lagging behind everyone else. You are taking it personal and that makes me wonder if maybe ms.a12deltanudst hit a nerve with you! Sweetie..... in this forum (and in everday life) I try to keep confrontations with my people to a minimal because we tend to lash out at each other about any little thing but yet, we are not so quick to lash out at others. This was my point in the begining, we are so divided and instead of supporting each other we tend to support others! Such things as interracial dating and etc etc are just another means of division! When I think of a interracial couple(etc etc) i see that as a form of poor self worth or lack of love for ones people. Unity is the only way to bring about a change and we can NOT unify with other races if we can not unify amongst OURSELVES. What makes a Black Person choose a White person over another Black Perosn to love and marry (etc etc) I mean yes people claim that "it had nothing to with race thats who i fell in love with". Well love is a slow process it is nothing that happens overnight, i mean you have to be friends first and so on and so forth so what makes one choose to TRY and identify with someone of another race instead of with one of their own? Whats wrong with their own? Where is the love for one self? WE lack it Sadeluv and we lack it badly! No matter how much you want to admint it or not. YOu call her statistics redundant, but what is true is true! I do not need to read any statistics to KNOW that every day we lose a brother or a sister to death at the hands of one of us! Everyday a child lose their BLACK MOTHER OR FATHER leaving them dam near hopeless and thus creating a complex! Everyday we lose a brother or sister to success, that they have gained but now refuses to deal with us! Everyday we lose a brother or a sister to an interracial relationship, creating division and the weakening of the already weak Black Family! I could go on for days! THE POINT IS MY SISTER, IF THINGS OF THIS NATURE(AND MUCH MORE) IS NOT LACKING SELF LOVE THEN OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE FOUND A NEW MEANING FOR THE PHRASE! MUCH LOVE TO ALL MY PEOPLE! WHETHER YOU AGREE OR NOT!

[AlphaChiGirl]

<<Everyday a child lose their BLACK MOTHER OR FATHER leaving them dam near hopeless and thus creating a complex! Everyday we lose a brother or sister to success, that they have gained but now refuses to deal with us! Everyday we lose a brother or a sister to an interracial relationship, creating division and the weakening of the already weak Black Family!>>

Well, you sound a bit stilted in your delivery, but I totally understand what you're saying. Are you saying that when a Black person is successful, it weakens the Black family? I'm committed to doing anything to maintain my family. I totally acknowledge the fact that there are huge rifts among Blacks, but criticizing those who follow their hearts, be it joining a group that's not an BGLO or entering an interracial relationship isn't helping.
I respect your opinion, but clarity would be appreciated.

[12dn94dst]

Sadeluv,
You're welcome. I like to respond to posts ASAP.

In your first response to me, you said "State the facts." I interpreted that as you wanting me to provide what I based my opinion on, which I did.

I respect that you do not wish to divulge your bedroom practices. Please forgive me if I offended anyone. That was not my intention. I believe that because not enough of us are openly discussing sexual issues that the HIV/AIDS epidemic has grown as it has. My management style, if you will, is a hands on one. I cannot urge someone to do something unless I'm doing or have done it myself.

Our perceptions are based on many things. Certainly the people with whom we choose to associate, and our own experiences contribute. A large part of my opinions are based on the formal education I've received. Sometimes, as with this post, I'm lead to make a generalization. I know I shouldn't, as I am often a victim of generalizations myself, but it happens (I'm still working on my super-human-ness ). I very rarely say "all" or "none." But sometimes I do, however, I'm receptive to correction, constructive criticism, and other view points.

When I was looking up the statistics, I was honestly surprised when I saw the suicide numbers, for general and personal reasons. Suicide is serious business. Our world has become so stressful and most have become so busy that we often forget to take time out to relax.


I feel sorry for kids today because most of them don't have the same childhood "luxuries" that we had...going outside to play either in the neighbors yard or in the street if traffic was minimal, chasing after the ice cream truck, watching decent cartoons . I mean, when did kindergarteners start having homework? When I was in kindergarten, it was the bomb. We got there at 8:30, we played, the teacher read a story, we had a snack, we took a nap and at 12:30 we went home. Those were the days....but I digress.

What everything in this and other posts of similar nature boils down to is we need to reach out to each other and start taking care of each other. Start in-house and work outward. We're all we have.


In the immortal words of Don Cornelius, "I wish you LOVE, PEACE and SSSSSSSOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLL!!!"

In the immortal words of the BRUHS "And I'm GONE (alright, alright) SO LONG!"

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Kelli
12-DN-94
SSU c/o 1997

[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited June 14, 2000).]

[prettygyrl]

Alpha Chi Girl You missed the whole point! I have no idea what you talking about but its all good. As far as one following their hearts, remember that if you do not read your HEART correctly it could send you astray.

Prettygyrl,

I actually admire your passion. I just want you to tell me something new for a change. Everything you said is true to some point. Can you honestly tell me that you know everyone Black. NO, because you don't know me. So how you can you say the whole race?!! We need to stop allowing generalizing statements come out of our mouths. (or in this case, our fingers) If someone white would make a statement like that, you probably would not take it well and tell them not to generalize and stereotype. What makes you any different!? Just because you are Black doesn't make that statement any more valid.

From your passionate & elaborate statement
your nerve seemed to be more sensitive than mine, when you said she "hit a nerve."

P.S. What made you think that I was a female?