D was told she would be offered a bid at Preference Night and then did not receive th

[JLCo]

Please pardon my sorority vocab; I am sure I will misuse words since I worked my way through college and was not able to afford becoming a member of a sorority. (As in my parents did not pay a dime of my tuition; I paid for all of it.)
I did not really feel deprived though because I grew up in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio, attended The Ohio State University and did not feel the need to have a substitute family and had work friends who were also in college.

However, my d chose to go out of state for college and expressed an interest in joining a sorority. So we both did a lot of research to see what was involved in Rush at her university. She decided not to rush her freshman year because her full-ride scholarship included a paid research job and she joined a club dance team that competes at the collegiate level at the NDA in Florida every year. Before receiving the scholarship offer, we had discussed that she should probably do two of these three activities and no more to ensure she maintains a high GPA: Sorority, Dance Team, Research position. We had planned on her getting the research position her sophomore or junior year and doing Sorority & Dance Team her freshman year. However, we thought it unwise to turn down the offer of a paid research position her freshman year. So she did that instead of rushing. Doing Dance Team was a given since she had danced 25-35 hours/ week for the past 6 years and started dance at the age of three.

So, my d rushed as a sophomore at a Big Ten University. At her university, PNMs can go to two Preference Parties. She received invites from a top level and middle level sorority. At the preference party for the top level sorority she was told that she looked adorable and that she would be receiving a bid from them. She was then asked if she would put them down as her number one choice. They talked her into answering "yes" (I think she used words something to the effect that they would not be disappointed by her choice).

Although she liked the middle level sorority, being in the top tier as well as the girls assurances that she would be offered a bid swayed her emotionally. So she called me excitedly to tell me that they had told her they would offer her a bid and that she had told them that she would be putting them down as her number one choice. She went out and celebrated with her boyfriend who is in a top tier fraternity. We thought it was a done deal. BTW- the boyfriend was more excited about her being in a top tier sorority than either I was or my daughter was. Then she goes to Bid Day and finds she has a bid from the middle tier sorority, whom she would have been happy to receive a bid from if the other sorority had not told her they would be offering her a bid. To top it off, the boyfriend told all his friends that she was going to get a bid from a top sorority and how hopefully they could do socials with that sorority. When I talked to my daughter tonight she was wondering if she would be breaking up with her boyfriend since she did not get into the top tier.

I feel like all of these negative emotions could have been avoided if the top tier sorority would not have told her she was going to get a bid from them. She is going to accept the bid from the middle tier but much of the fun has been taken out of the process.

[Just interested]

You're joking! This is not a for real post? So let me get this right. You did not need a substitute family but your daughter does. Your daughter's boyfriend is controlling the situation? Your daughter received a bid from a group that she likes but is not good enough for HIM? You are upset because she was PROMISED a bid from a top group. Sounds like a soap opera to me!!!

[Sororitysock]

Originally Posted by JLCo

Please pardon my sorority vocab; I am sure I will misuse words since I worked my way through college and was not able to afford becoming a member of a sorority. (As in my parents did not pay a dime of my tuition; I paid for all of it.)
I did not really feel deprived though because I grew up in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio, attended The Ohio State University and did not feel the need to have a substitute family and had work friends who were also in college.

However, my d chose to go out of state for college and expressed an interest in joining a sorority. So we both did a lot of research to see what was involved in Rush at her university. She decided not to rush her freshman year because her full-ride scholarship included a paid research job and she joined a club dance team that competes at the collegiate level at the NDA in Florida every year. Before receiving the scholarship offer, we had discussed that she should probably do two of these three activities and no more to ensure she maintains a high GPA: Sorority, Dance Team, Research position. We had planned on her getting the research position her sophomore or junior year and doing Sorority & Dance Team her freshman year. However, we thought it unwise to turn down the offer of a paid research position her freshman year. So she did that instead of rushing. Doing Dance Team was a given since she had danced 25-35 hours/ week for the past 6 years and started dance at the age of three.

So, my d rushed as a sophomore at a Big Ten University. At her university, PNMs can go to two Preference Parties. She received invites from a top level and middle level sorority. At the preference party for the top level sorority she was told that she looked adorable and that she would be receiving a bid from them. She was then asked if she would put them down as her number one choice. They talked her into answering "yes" (I think she used words something to the effect that they would not be disappointed by her choice).

Although she liked the middle level sorority, being in the top tier as well as the girls assurances that she would be offered a bid swayed her emotionally. So she called me excitedly to tell me that they had told her they would offer her a bid and that she had told them that she would be putting them down as her number one choice. She went out and celebrated with her boyfriend who is in a top tier fraternity. We thought it was a done deal. BTW- the boyfriend was more excited about her being in a top tier sorority than either I was or my daughter was. Then she goes to Bid Day and finds she has a bid from the middle tier sorority, whom she would have been happy to receive a bid from if the other sorority had not told her they would be offering her a bid. To top it off, the boyfriend told all his friends that she was going to get a bid from a top sorority and how hopefully they could do socials with that sorority. When I talked to my daughter tonight she was wondering if she would be breaking up with her boyfriend since she did not get into the top tier.

I feel like all of these negative emotions could have been avoided if the top tier sorority would not have told her she was going to get a bid from them. She is going to accept the bid from the middle tier but much of the fun has been taken out of the process.

QFP

[JLCo]

"You're joking! This is not a for real post? So let me get this right. You did not need a substitute family but your daughter does. Your daughter's boyfriend is controlling the situation? Your daughter received a bid from a group that she likes but is not good enough for HIM? You are upset because she was PROMISED a bid from a top group. Sounds like a soap opera to me!!!"

Wow! What a very rude reply. I am so glad I never had an interest in going Greek if you are an example that represents them.

"You are upset because she was PROMISED a bid from a top group. " Yes I am. And guess what? The Panhellenic Council indicates that this is not allowable behavior. So, although you might think it is OK, they have disallowed this. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your ethics so they are more in line with the Panhellenic council rules of what they think is right and wrong behavior.

I came here to see what others thought about the sorority breaking the rules and you reply by attacking me personally and then saying it is OK to break the rules and that if there are negative consequences for my daughter, I am being unreasonable in acknowledging that.

Please tell me, do you agree or disagree that a sorority should not promise a bid to a PNM at a Preference Day party? Also, I would like to know why you think that the Panhellenic Council made this rule. Do you think they made this rule to protect PNMs from being hurt?

[1964Alum]

Bid promises absolutely should not be offered at Preference parties. Both of the preference parties I attended were "top tier" sororities. One offered me an oral bid and one did not. I chose the one that did not. I knew that bid promising was strictly against Panhellenic rules and chose the one that respected the rules. Was your daughter aware of the rules?

[JLCo]

I mentioned that I thought that they were not supposed to share info like that with PNMs. She was under the impression that everything is more intimate at the Preference Party and that offering her a bid in this situation was acceptable.

I am very upset about the outcome of the fabrication. I would compare it to going to a job interview and the interviewer telling you that you had the job and then later finding out that they simply lied to you. This is a tough lesson on human nature and I think it will sour her on Sorority life. And, the last thing my daughter said to me before she hung up was that she thinks she and her boyfriend might break-up as a result of the fiasco.

In my mind this is just another strike against going Greek because a frat member is so concerned about the ranking of sorority tiers that this would be an issue for him. Again, I have to wonder, is this what Greek life is all about???

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

Bid promises absolutely should not be offered at Preference parties. Both of the preference parties I attended were "top tier" sororities. One offered me an oral bid and one did not. I chose the one that did not. I knew that bid promising was strictly against Panhellenic rules and chose the one that respected the rules. Was your daughter aware of the rules?

[carnation]

Well, no big loss about the boyfriend. He's certainly a loser if he fought with her because she didn't make "top tier".

And no, all that you wrote about isn't what Greek life is about or we wouldn't be here on Greekchat.

[Titchou]

I can't count all the times I've been told that a bid was offered at pref and when I FINALLY got the exact verbiage from the PNM, it wasn't an offer at all -just a "we would love to see you tomorrow" which is NOT a promise. Also "being disappointed by her choice" of the other group isn't promising one either. Also she MAY have had a bid from them(been on their bid list) but she was further down their list than the other group's bid list. Top tier group filled up BEFORE they got to her. I see nothing nefarious with this group's technique - in fact, they are pretty good at it and I see why they are top tier.

[JLCo]

On the first day she was told (and these are the exact words) "you are going to love our tailgate parties". My daughter told me that they were directed not to say anything like that. My understanding is that this also is against the Panhellenic rules. My daughter told me that she knew they were breaking the rules when she was told that but was flattered by their attention.

Secondly, you are assuming that my daughter is giving incorrect information. She has a 4.0 college cumulative GPA in her pre-med curriculum. I have found over the past few years when we disagreed that when I thought I was right about something and she was wrong, once I got more info, that she actually was right. She is highly gifted and has a killer memory. SO, while you are assuming that my daughter must have an incorrect memory or perception of what happened, I can tell you my experience is that she is rarely wrong about anything. She got all As all through elementary, junior high school, and high school and got a near perfect SAT score the first time she took it (with no special tutoring or classes). So, yes I do believe my daughter's account of what happened. And I do not agree with you automatically giving the sorority girl the benefit of the doubt over my daughter because my daughter's track record is exceptional.

"they are pretty good at it and I see why they are top tier." Yes, they are pretty darn good at dirty recruiting practices. I see we have another greek member who agrees with these recruiting practices. As I said, my ethics are different, and in fact, Panhellenic Council ethics purport to be different as well.

Again, I ask you, would you like to go to a job interview, be offered the job in a concrete manner, and then be told that actually they lied- you are really just farther down on the list. Is this the definition of "Good Greek Recruitment Practices"?

Originally Posted by Titchou

I can't count all the times I've been told that a bid was offered at pref and when I FINALLY got the exact verbiage from the PNM, it wasn't an offer at all -just a "we would love to see you tomorrow" which is NOT a promise. Also "being disappointed by her choice" of the other group isn't promising one either. Also she MAY have had a bid from them(been on their bid list) but she was further down their list than the other group's bid list. Top tier group filled up BEFORE they got to her. I see nothing nefarious with this group's technique - in fact, they are pretty good at it and I see why they are top tier.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by JLCo

On the first day she was told (and these are the exact words) "you are going to love our tailgate parties". My daughter told me that they were directed not to say anything like that. My understanding is that this also is against the Panhellenic rules. My daughter told me that she knew they were breaking the rules when she was told that but was flattered by their attention.

Again, I ask you, would you like to go to a job interview, be offered the job in a concrete manner, and then be told that actually they lied- you are really just farther down on the list. Is this the definition of "Good Greek Recruitment Practices"?

I do not consider the quote as dirty rushing. If the quote was "you are going to love our tailgate parties when you are a member," THAT would be dirty rushing because it is specifically making it WHEN she is a member. And if I had a job interview where I was told I would love something they do, I would NEVER construe that to be a promise of employment - only that I would love it enough that I would WANT to be employed there. I'm sorry that your daughter interpreted it this way and that she did not seek advice from her recruitment counselor about the meaning or whether it was in fact dirty rushing. At least she has a bid and place to call home. She should focus on how much she is wanted there.

[JLCo]

Just to clarify, it isn't so much what tier sorority she is in. I think she did well, given that she is an out of state student. Also of note, is the sorority she is joining seems to be moving up in her school's ranking & has a fabulous house (probably part of the reason they are moving up) . I think the issue is a loss of face; falsely being told that someone would be in a certain sorority. They lied to my daughter and she believed them and indirectly lied to him thru her. Again, the issue here is not that she was accepted to the other sorority (which she does like), it is being duped and lied to. It would not have been an issue if they had never lied to her and created false expectations.

And yes, I agree that it is likely no big loss on the boyfriend. But I would ideally want her to start her Greek life without the negative experience and the idea that the negative experience also had a negative effect on her relationship with her boyfriend.

Originally Posted by carnation

Well, no big loss about the boyfriend. He's certainly a loser if he fought with her because she didn't make "top tier".

And no, all that you wrote about isn't what Greek life is about or we wouldn't be here on Greekchat.

[KSUViolet06]

This is definitely not supposed to happen, but unfortunately still does.

[FSUZeta]

JLoCo, you would have received more sympathetic responses had you posted a more neutral post. Your post infers that sorority members are privileged, needy individuals. "I paid it all myself" and "I didn't need a substitute family" are offered as examples. Go back and reread your first paragraph. It reeks of condescension.

This is your recourse: daughter can file a complaint with the Greek Life office at her school. The offending sorority might get in trouble, but it won't change your daughter's situation.

My question is this: if your daughter is "so brilliant" and knew bid promising was strictly against the rules ( as it is on all campuses), how did she allow herself to be duped? I hope that she is throwing herself into all the opportunities that sorority #2 will offer her.

BTW, if her boyfriend is in a fraternity that is top tier, they would already be socializing with the bid promising top tier sorority. And Mom, certainly you know that if D's boyfriend breaks up with D because she did not get a bid from the top tier group, he is a jerk, and she is better off without him!

I hope your daughter can work through her disappointment and enjoy membership in her group. Good luck to her.

[QLB817]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

This is definitely not supposed to happen, but unfortunately still does.

It didn't happen to my daughter, but she heard other PNMs talking about one group saying some questionable things at pref. And I honestly don't know if it is really that the actives are trying to be manipulative or that they just don't think through what they may have said. Yes, maybe one or two girls really really wanted the PNM, but depending on how that group does their voting and Bid List, those particular actives had less say in the matter than they thought.

It's a very fine line between trying to make a PNM feel like she is/can be part of the group and outright telling her she has a spot. And sometimes in their excitement and emotional state (because we ALL know how emotional pref can get), the PNM may hear things differently than it was said.

JLCo - I'm not doubting your daughter's intelligence or memory skills here, but recruitment is an emotional mess. Yes, some groups dirty rush, but sometimes it is actually just a mis-communication rather than someone lying to her. The actives may have said things one way, and she heard or interpreted it incorrectly. I also get that you are upset with them, but unless your daughter is willing to go to Panhellenic with the information and go through that process, it's probably best to vent, then let it go. Especially if she's happy with her bid.

And as for the fight with the boyfriend, I know completely from my experiences with my daughter that I'm getting pretty much her side of the discussion only and when she's on an emotional rant, her viewpoint is often pretty skewed. Once she calms down, we usually get the full story and can help her see how to fix it. She's getting better with it, but she does not "fight well" with boyfriends. Maybe he wasn't upset at her not getting the specific group, but her reaction to it all. Maybe she wouldn't let it go and that irritated him. Or maybe he is a jerk and only cares about ranking. But perhaps let a few days pass and see if calmer emotions allow you to get more of that story.

[JLCo]

I did not mean to offend by saying "substitute family". I am sure I could have worded that better or gone into more detail about what I meant. I simply meant that I did not face the loneliness that I think students deal with when they go away to school. All my family was within a 30 minute drive. I was simply trying to explain I understand that this a good reason for my daughter's and other's desire to become part of an organization that does, for many, become like a family to them.

"Your post infers that sorority members are privileged...... "I paid it all myself" "

Well yes, I do think those who had college mostly paid for by their parents and are able to afford to also pay sorority dues are privileged. As the saying goes, college is not a "right" in this country; it is a privilege.

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

JLoCo, you would have received more sympathetic responses had you posted a more neutral post. Your post infers that sorority members are privileged, needy individuals. "I paid it all myself" and "I didn't need a substitute family" are offered as examples. Go back and reread your first paragraph. It reeks of condescension.

This is your recourse: daughter can file a complaint with the Greek Life office at her school. The offending sorority might get in trouble, but it won't change your daughter's situation.

My question is this: if your daughter is "so brilliant" and knew bid promising was strictly against the rules ( as it is on all campuses), how did she allow herself to be duped? I hope that she is throwing herself into all the opportunities that sorority #2 will offer her.

BTW, if her boyfriend is in a fraternity that is top tier, they would already be socializing with the bid promising top tier sorority. And Mom, certainly you know that if D's boyfriend breaks up with D because she did not get a bid from the top tier group, he is a jerk, and she is better off without him!

I hope your daughter can work through her disappointment and enjoy membership in her group. Good luck to her.