Question for lawyers/law students/anyone

[kddani]

When can one officially put the "Esq." after their name- after graduating law school or after passing the bar?

I have to address something using a person's name who just graduated and took the bar, but doesn't know if they passed yet. Just wanted to check on this!

[greeklawgirl]

One can officially put the Esq. after their name once they become a member of the Bar. If you are really strict about etiquette, technically Esq. is a honorific used only by males; for females, use "Attorney at Law." (This rule is being used less and less)

Until they pass the bar, or if they choose not to take the bar, they may use "John Smith, J.D."

In an academic setting, it is also permissible to use "Dr. John Smith."

Hope this helps.

[James]

I always thought Esquire was a little tacky from the male lawyers. Kind of like buying yourself a "title". I met someone that had done that also.

But I confess that I do not know the history behind the word esquire.

[kddani]

i've been told since way back in the day when I worked for the bar association that you always addressed a letter to Joe Blow, Esq. regardless of male or female.

Thanks for clearing up when one got the right to the "Esq." I have two "Esq." on my references list and one poor little "J.D." because he hasn't gotten his bar results yet

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by James
I always thought Esquire was a little tacky from the male lawyers. Kind of like buying yourself a "title". I met someone that had done that also.

Haha! I've never encountered anyone who actually uses Esquire.

[knight_shadow]

Bumping because I didn't want to create another thread about this.

This may seem like a silly question, but I'm a bit curious. When you're in law school, do you become familiar with "the basics" before choosing your specialization (ex. corporate, environmental, etc), or are you expected to jump right into your area?

I'm a b-school student, and while my focus was in marketing, I still had to learn about finance, accounting, operations, etc. If asked a question about something outside of my specialty, I can offer recommendations, but will usually defer to someone whose main focus was in said specialty.

I'm curious because I know that lawyers have to be careful when offering legal advice (which is foreign to me, as we don't have a "bar" type organization). I just wanted to know if you're able to say "Well, in this instance, you should _____, but I'd still suggest speaking with a ____ attorney for more information," or if you always have to say "Speak with a ____ attorney for more information."

Thanks.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

This may seem like a silly question, but I'm a bit curious. When you're in law school, do you become familiar with "the basics" before choosing your specialization (ex. corporate, environmental, etc), or are you expected to jump right into your area?

You learn the basics first. Specialization doesn't really happen in law school, except to the extent that you might try to take classes or get internships in areas that really interest you your second or third year. (Normally, there are no electives first year.) Specialization typically happens after you graduate and pass the bar. It can be informal ("I tend to mostly do x kinds of cases") or more formal if your bar certifies people as specialists in certain areas.

As for the original topic, I wonder if the use of "Esq." is a regional thing. I've rarely encountered it around here -- we just don't use, and haven't really at least as long as I've practiced.

[Kevin]

When you pass the Bar, in most states, that means you are able to practice in the state courts without limitation. There are certain specialized Bars such as the Patents Bar, which are a little more specialized.

But once you pass that Bar Exam, you can go file environmental litigation, a consumer class action suit, 24 divorces, a bankruptcy and a civil rights action that same day. Whether you are actually competent to handle any of those is another matter entirely.

Law school teaches you the basics, and for the most part, classes won't prepare you to practice law. Either get some good internships or learn the ropes somewhere as an associate and life is good. There's no formal apprenticeship requirement, but that's generally how it works out anyhow.

As for Esq., I get things addressed to Kevin, Esq., but never address them as such. As for the academic realm, the J.D.s I know who do teach go by Dr., and there is an Attorney General's opinion discussing and allowing that practice.

[knight_shadow]

Thank you both

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

As for the academic realm, the J.D.s I know who do teach go by Dr., and there is an Attorney General's opinion discussing and allowing that practice.

Interesting. All law school professor's I've ever know were "Professor So-and-so." I've only known one lawyer who called himself "Dr." based on his JD. All the other lawyers laughed at him behind his back.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Interesting. All law school professor's I've ever know were "Professor So-and-so." I've only known one lawyer who called himself "Dr." based on his JD. All the other lawyers laughed at him behind his back.

In law school, it was professor. I assume it would be as much unless someone had an SJD, then he or she would definitely get to be called doctor (or whatever else they wanted to be called).

I'm talking about in an undergraduate college setting. The J.D.s all went by doctor and no one ever said anything about it. This includes the university's president.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm talking about in an undergraduate college setting. The J.D.s all went by doctor and no one ever said anything about it. This includes the university's president.

Ah, gotcha. Even then, though, the ones I've known, though, have gone by Mr. or Ms., unless they had another doctorate. In my experience, there is a real avoidance of calling someone "Dr." based on a J.D., perhaps because it's a relatively recent degree and many, many lawyers (and judges) didn't have a J.D. And again, maybe it's a regional thing.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Ah, gotcha. Even then, though, the ones I've known, though, have gone by Mr. or Ms., unless they had another doctorate. In my experience, there is a real avoidance of calling someone "Dr." based on a J.D., perhaps because it's a relatively recent degree and many, many lawyers (and judges) didn't have a J.D. And again, maybe it's a regional thing.

To be clear, Mr. or Ms. unless in an academic setting, then when surrounded by PhDs, "doctor" it is. If it's good enough for tenure, it should be good enough for everyone else.

It may be an Okie thing though, you may have me there.

LLB degrees haven't been passed out for quite some time, so perhaps the reason for avoidance of the term has faded?

[Drolefille]

^^^ Isn't Esq. traditionally a "someone gives the title to you, you don't take it yourself" thing?

Not really targeted toward you or your experience DrPhil, more of a general lawyer question.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

LLB degrees haven't been passed out for quite some time, so perhaps the reason for avoidance of the term has faded?

JD appeared in different states at different times. There are still a number of LLBs practicing and sitting on the bench around here.

Even so, I just think it sounds odd/pretentious/silly for a JD to use "doctor."

Originally Posted by DrPhil

In academia, including those who teach and conduct research, "Dr." tends to only be used for PhD, PsyD, and M.D.

Right. even in non-academic circles, I think lots of people tend to equate "Dr." either with a medical professional (physician, dentist, vet, doctoral level psychologist, etc) or with a PhD or something comparable to a PhD. I've known lots of people, and lots of lawyers (and I guess I'm probably one) who don't consider a JD to be a "real" doctorate. I mean, if you want an advanced degree after law school, you typically go for an LLM, a masters. That doesn't sound like you already have a doctorate to me.

I understand that the move to the JD was to make the law degree, which was then a bachelor's degree, more on a par with other professionals. But I feel quite sure that if someone called me Dr. MysticCat, I'd tell them I don't have a doctorate and am merely a Mister.