The dictation of General

ViktorBTP · #1 04-05-2006, 03:00 AM

So recently our chapter, ZH at San Jose State has been told to drop our traditions of big bro night b/c of alcohol and even elements of initiation due to "hazing," although none of it is physical, it's all mental and effective as well, it does not damage anyone but can get emotional, i wont go into detail for obvious reasons but what do you think of general threatening to drop chapters based on a ABOLSUTE zero tolerence policy, we got an email basically saying General would rather close a chapter and start over decades or so down the road than fix the "problem." I do not feel like we are problematic, we don't haze but we do like to see emotion and have the pledges feel and have devotion towards Beta. How do brothers feel about this? Several brothers feel like General is shooting us towards the path of becoming a sorority.
Yours in ___Kai___

Viktor 158

sdbeta1 · #2 04-05-2006, 03:17 AM

I also won't go into details for obvious reasons. However, the decision you take holds the future in your hands. I would follow their suggestion. It is hard to comment on hazing accusations when details are not given. In terms of big bro night involving alcohol, that is a risk management violation. On a sidenote, were you a part of the Zeta Eta's who performed the initiation ritual for San Diego in December '04.

ViktorBTP · #3 04-05-2006, 05:19 AM

I guess you're right, it's just an old tradition we have, and it's fine, but what qualifies as "hazing" is kind of ridiculous to me... Somethings I am for, but most of it I am clearly not. I'm sure i'll be saying something differen't after Men of Principle but that's to be decided. I know about it... but I was not there in San Diego, although I do know several that did go. If you can remember any ZH brother who was there it would probably be Robert Umstatder, he works for General now, he would be a good guy to contact if you ever had any questions or had to talk to General about something or maybe just to say hi. rumstadter@wooglin.com thanks for your input. As of now, big bro night is dry and we must decide anew a new program/night, and I am looking for suggestions of possible activities. Thanks again-

Coramoor · #4 04-05-2006, 02:40 PM

I am very disappointed in the direction that Nationals is going. I think that they are turning Beta into a very weak fraternity or possibly a honors fraternity.

I have traveled to probably 20 or so chapters and there is one general trend I noticed. The chapters that where I thought they guys were cool, fun to hang out with, had good relations with sororities,etc are all having problems with the G.F.

However the chapters that I thought were full of toolbags, let in guys with no personality, limp wrists, and no relations with sororities on campus are exemplified by the G.F.

I have friends from highschool at other Universities that say the Beta's there are a total joke-and yet those are the chapters that the G.F. loves.

I think we are the only Fraternity that would consider it a great year when we have less chapters and brothers at the end of the year than we did at the begginning. Every year since I've been here we've had fewer chapters.

Additionally, just looking on my campus other fraternities that are not my chapters size/age/distinction has more support from their National Office than my chapter does from our national office.

I get very discouraged when I see chapters getting new houses, renovations, etc because of the help from their G.F. and alumni and all my chapter gets is investigated about events that happened 4 and 5 years ago.

ViktorBTP · #5 04-05-2006, 11:12 PM

I have to say that we are beginning to feel the same way at ZH..

Betarulz! · #6 04-06-2006, 01:24 AM

I'd like to hear what this tradition is...Tradition for the sake of tradition is a weak arguement. I agree that the "by the book" definition (the one from stophazing.org) is unnecessarily broad and can construe just about any thing as hazing, but if you're admitting it's pretty rough the I have to know what it is to assess it.

I also wonder what you guys think of my chapter (Nebraska) given that we are pretty much untouchable with the GF right now.

PM me if you want.

Coramoor · #7 04-06-2006, 09:02 PM

I don't know anything about your chapter, but I doubt that it's untouchable.

Like I said, the G.F. closes down more chapters in a year than they expand and open. The average chapter size has fallen, and the # of undergrads is down.

Betarulz! · #8 04-06-2006, 09:25 PM

I truly believe that it would have to be an extremely, extremely grievous fault in order for the GF to decide to close or reorganize our chapter. Even suspension would require something pretty big. Someone would have to die for us to be even close to a reorg or closure...

Given that we've won Knox's for 5 out of 6 years, and that we won the Award of Distinction from NIC (one of 5 chapters of ANY fraternity throughout the country) last summer, I just kind of assumed that we would be one of those chapters that you claim are exemplified by the GF. While I know that we don't fit your general stereotyping beyond having good relations with the GF, I just wondered how that all fit together.

a.e.B.O.T. · #9 04-06-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coramoor

Like I said, the G.F. closes down more chapters in a year than they expand and open. The average chapter size has fallen, and the # of undergrads is down.

Youre right, and that is a sad truth, but it is not about numbers. Our fraternity, though Im not saying recruitment isnt important, is not about having the most chapter or anything of the such. It's about quality. If chapters dont live up to our values, they do NOT deserve to represent us on their campus. It is a collection of chapter presidents that decides this (if im not mistaken) not the AO. In regards to opening chapters, the AO puts alot of work into their new chapter so they can get right on track, and as a participant of that, it still isnt enough help. So, they can only open so many chapters, and do so much. They are trying and they have the best interests of the fraternity at heart. So get off your high horse, and damn it, accept the fraternity you are apart of!!!

AH1610, Tim Henson

Coramoor · #10 04-07-2006, 01:57 PM

You are right in that quality is more important than quantity, but by not concentrating on expansion we are not growing. Growth is the key to success. A fraternity in a way is like a business-the most successful attract the best people.

I really don't think that our Fraternities approach is doing that. When you say that you feel that the AO doesn't prepare you enough for recruitment, I tend to think that the AO is holding your hand too much and not giving you enough responsibility in self survival and learning.

I don't expect to open 20 chapters a year, but opening less than you are closing is a sure way to failure.

I also think that the amount of money spent on leadership schools and that sort of thing is a waste. I've been to a few of them, and it's not anything new or anything that a person with common sense shouldn't already know. Spend that money on recruitment instead of these stupid confrences.

I don't have a problem with someone trying their hardest out of love for my Fraternity-but I certainly won't say that they are doing the right thing when I think it's wrong or not working.

a.e.B.O.T. · #11 04-07-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coramoor

I really don't think that our Fraternities approach is doing that. When you say that you feel that the AO doesn't prepare you enough for recruitment, I tend to think that the AO is holding your hand too much and not giving you enough responsibility in self survival and learning.

no, they arnt holding are hand too much... our biggest problem is that we don't know what we are suppose to do, and there is no one here to help us with that...

Coramoor · #12 04-07-2006, 07:41 PM

I was in the same shoes when I took over as Recruitment chair. Instead of it being a weakness, I turned it into a strength and came up with things that no other fraternity on campus ever thought of because they were stuck in the same system of thought.

ZZ-kai- · #13 04-09-2006, 06:17 PM

Our chapters belong to a General Fraternity, of which we govern ourselves (undergrad vote). The GF would not steer a chapter in the wrong direction. Many chapters that are already going the wrong direction, feel GF is being a 'Dictator' when they come in and try to fix things.

Tradition for the sake of tradition, is one of the lamest excuses I have heard. If a chapter has a 'tradition' that could cause harm/injury/humility to a pledge or another person, then it should be addressed at a higher level (IE, alumn/advisors/GF rep/Univ. rep). It's like the Shep test = lame. (IMO)

Anyway, GF is not our enemy, they are our best resource. Use it if you will, or continue the way you are - either way is fine, but don't come down on other chapters that do use the GF resources.

-kai-

Coramoor · #14 04-09-2006, 08:20 PM

Dude, you are the only one that keeps on ranting about tradition and how lame it is.

1.No one but you is mentioned tradition.
2.Tradition is not lame. Otherwise, why even be a fraternity?

The chapter delegates have a very limited ability to steer the efforts of the G.F. The General Officers are given a lot of leeway to decide how they want to proceed. I think that they are leading us in a the wrong direction.

furmanbeta · #15 04-12-2006, 07:18 PM

Speaking as an individual who was a delegate at last year's convention, I will agree that while in name our undergrads run the show, the reality is that the gray-haired ones in Ohio do. Did the undergrads elect Tom Purinton president of the General Fraternity last year? Yes. Was there any alternative, any debate, any other name brought forward in consideration? No.

You can make a lot happen at the General Convention. However, assuming you can mop up everything in the 4 days you're there, who is running the show the other 361 days of the year? That's right, the guys in Oxford. They continue to test their own individual bounds, and until the General Convention steps up and says "No, that's too far", nothing will change. You won't see the board of trustees disagree with what's going on.

Is hazing a good thing? Not really. Should the general fraternity endorse hazing? No. Should the general fraternity punish hazing? Sure. They have to cover their own backsides. But we're in a fraternity, where the undergrads define the chapter, not the national organization. It makes me sick that people are trying to homogonize Beta. Further, there's an amendment to the Code which is going to be proposed in Toronto, basically saying something along the lines of "Beta won't discriminate based on race, ethnicity, creed, religion, etc." Let's be honest, we should be exclusive. Take the best people as you define them. Every chapter has their own arbitrary factors for determining who gets a bid, some even being as paltry as looks or popularity. Do I have a problem with how any chapter picks their pledges? No, I'm not in their shoes, I don't know who or what is best for them. Discrimination is bad, but we're letting people into a very exclusive club here, you can't just let anyone in.