A pledge with a kid?

mozlvr · #1 10-22-2002, 10:43 PM

I just wanted some advice from you guys. I think that I may have evidence to support the fact that one of our recent pledges has a kid. Now if that is okay with nationals, I guess it's okay with me. But I was wondering if she does actually have a kid and she has blatantly lied about it to me and a few other sisters, wouldn't that be reason to question her membership? What should I do? First off, I am not positive that she does have a child and I do not want to make a big deal out of it until I know for sure. On the other hand, her lying to me really bothers me and I don't want a sister that is a liar. Do I rat her out? Wait to find out the truth, in which case it could be too late and she could already be an initiated member? Or, drop it and keep this bit of information to myself? I could just ask her but like I said before, she would just lie to me. Thanks for any feedback!

P.S. Does anyone know the policy on women with chidren?

~Q5~ · #2 10-22-2002, 10:57 PM

why would there be a policy on women with children pledging?
There are too many women with children that pledge organizations, i myself did so as well as members after me. As for lying about it, thats at the least questionable character

Kevin · #3 10-22-2002, 11:00 PM

If she had said she had a child would you have chosen her over other recruits?

If she can balance the sorority and taking care of a child wouldn't that show that she is HUGELY worthy of membership (I'd hope?)

I'm just speaking from experience.. While we haven't ever had a candidate in my fraternity with a child, actually one does have a Godson that he spendsa lot of time with. It certainly doesn't detract from him being a good member.. He used to bring the kid around on weekends when he was active. Was actually pretty cool. Other members have been married and still been very productive and great brothers all around.

All I'm saying is give the girl a chance and maybe forgive a minor transgression such as that. If you can't honestly say that it wouldn't have changed your mind in her becoming a member one way or the other for her to have a child then you're on pretty shaky ground being angry about the situation.

Tom Earp · #4 10-22-2002, 11:11 PM

Who, If lieing is part of it, then, what then?

It is not easy, enuff said!

Most Greeks on Site are Social and therefore have certain things that must be done and time spent.
It is not wrong to have a child, BUT? That is the question.

If this person is afraid and wants to join a Greek Organization then put up front.

Women can be B, but they may have the Motherly points of life.

This is a discussion that I will make a point about, and will only make it once. Well unless we get into a good discussion!

DNTKE · #5 10-22-2002, 11:15 PM

Speking as a parent, you need to look at this as an opportunity instead of an "image" thing or however you are looking at it. This should be good for her and good for you. I don't understand how things can change overnight if in fact she is a parent???

(By the way, the "Kid" is a person. Using "child" instead of the "K" word seems to be a bit more respectful. Okay, now I'll get off my soap box.)

mozlvr · #6 10-22-2002, 11:38 PM

Okay, Before I get all these defensive parents I would like to point out that the issue is that she lied about her situation, not the situation itself. I was originally concerned because she has lied about other things and I decided to be more sceptical about the things she says.Second, the reason I addressed whether or not there are policies about women with children is because I know that there are organizations that have policies about married women, so why wouldn't they have rules about women with childeren? I understand that a women who is able to balance a family and a sorority is worth having in my chapter, but is having someone who would lie about such a large part of her life in order to get into the sorority worth it?

Kevin · #7 10-22-2002, 11:47 PM

Then you must ask yourself -- if she had told the truth would you have let her in?

This is a much more complex issue I think than you make it out to be. I can understand lieing about something like this. Being in a sorority might mean that much to her -- and in this case it might be a good thing.

However, if this is just one thing that she's not honest about among many other stupid things.. If there's one thing I can't stand it's people that lie about stupid things.

But I don't feel it should be so simple as someone who lies = bad person. Immature... insecure... maybe. But those things can be fixed isn't that part of the mission of GLO's?

I'm also not a parent.. nor do I have plans to be in the forseeable future...

KillarneyRose · #8 10-22-2002, 11:54 PM

Since the issue is not with the fact that she may have a child, but with the fact that she may have lied about it, then I suggest you step back for a minute and think through what you would do if the alleged lie was about something else that your National had no firm policy on. (i.e. said she lettered in a sport but didn't, lied about being prom queen, etc.)

Would you still feel like you want to go to the other members of your organization with the information?

If the answer is yes, then do what you feel you have to do.

But like KTSnake mentioned, I hope you take into account how much being a part of your organization must mean to her if she chose to hide something that is such a big part of her life.

phisigduchesscv · #9 10-23-2002, 12:37 AM

question? did she flat out lie and say she doesn't have a child or would it be a lie by omission by not mentioning that she has a child. If it's a lie by omission then I would consider that she probably did it because she really wanted to join your sorority.
As for women with children we have one sister who had an 8 year old daughter when we initiated her and had a brand new daughter a few months later. In our current new member class w have 2 more women with children. They have all been very active and quality members for us.

Lindz928 · #10 10-23-2002, 01:05 AM

I don't know about any other organizations, but my sorority won't allow us to pledge a woman if she is married or has a child. We had a problem with this last year. A girl went through recruitment, and she never lied about having a child, but the sisters who rushed her for some reason saw no reason to tell anyone about it. She got a bid, but when we found out that she was a parent, we had to ask her to de-pledge. There is the image issue, (how will it look to others on your campus). We also couldn't understand what she would really get out of being in a sorority. I guess it just seemed like she wouldn't have anything in common with most of the other girls. Also, why would you want to be spending so much money to join a sorority when you have a child to take care of? If I were her, I would have rather spent that money on my child.
This probably all sounds very superficial to some people, but think about it. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me for a girl with a baby to be in a sorority. Plus, if she lied about it, then that is definatley a reason not to want her in the chapter as far as I am concerned.
I also don't think there is anything wrong with worrying about the image of your chapter. Greek life is a lot about image (sometimes more than it should be), and the image that your chapter gives off is important, even if it is a superficial thing to worry about.
My opinion, if you are even having to question whether or not you want her there, then you should not have to pledge her, and I don't think you should feel guilty if you ask her to de-pledge.

Lindsey

gphiangel624 · #11 10-23-2002, 04:04 AM

I can understand why so many people would be concerned about the image of your chapter if you had a member with a child or who was married. . . but when it actually happens, you may think differently...
When I pledged Gamma Phi Beta as a freshman, we had a member (a grad. student) who was 27, married, and the mother of two. This is not against our national or chapter regulations, and my chapter had no problem with her being in our chapter. Not only was she a dedicated, wonderful member, she donated her own home on a beautiful lake so that our chapter could use it for retreats, initiation, etc. I was a little skeptical of her at first, I'll admit, but there was nothing in the rules against it. She graduated, moved on, and now she's an active alum.

My perspective on this changed a lot recently... shortly after she was initiated in 2000, a rumor circulated that one of our members had eloped... the rumor was true. This member, at 19 years old, eloped with her long-time boyfriend. Our chapter was ecstatic, much to her surprise. She thought there were rules against married members, and there are not. We were disappointed that we weren't informed of the wedding, but her husband is extremely welcome now. Last Spring, we had a candle passing, and it turned out that this member was pregnant. Some of our members thought it was odd, that she was too young, etc. In her family, 21 years old is LATE to be having children... so we accepted her culture, threw her a baby shower, and it's been great. There is a clause in our bylaws that says you cannot be unwed and pregnant (you're asked to resign), but you CAN have children from a previous relationship before pledging, and you CAN be pregnant and remain active, so long as you are legitimately married... Our "mommie" member was very upset when she learned of her pregnancy... she was excited, but was afraid we would force her to resign... it's wonderful to have someone who is so close to explain the pressures of pregnancy, marriage, and soon, childbirth and motherhood. Our new members were a little skeptical at first of the 8-month pregnant member at Bid Day, but now they're so excited to learn that we will have a beautiful Gamma Phi Beta legacy in the next month!

If your members are lying about something so important in their lives in order to be a part of something else important, you may want to think about just confronting her. Look at what your bylaws (national and local) say and have someone she respects speak to her... an advisor, the president, her best friend or pledge sister... she'll confide in someone and work things through if the sorority is that important to her.

zchi2 · #12 10-23-2002, 08:28 AM

I don't understand the big deal about having a child and pledging. There have been people in my organization that had a child and they were actually the most dedicated member in the chapter. I also don't understand the thing about "image." I'm not saying that people are like this in your chapters, but it's funny how some sororities would let people in their chapter that sleep around with every guy and get drunk every other night. Then they turn around and say no to someone who has a child.
Also just because they person has a child, doesn't mean they can't relate to their pledge class. They might have more responsiblities than others, but they are still a student and want to have sisters just like all of us.

to mozlvr:
What proof do you have that she has a child? Have you asked her flat out if she has a child?

Aphigal · #13 10-23-2002, 09:01 AM

If a woman's organization can't support woman on women's issues (ie having children perhaps out of wedlock) then what the heck are we doing!?

ilovemyglo · #14 10-23-2002, 09:11 AM

Okay, before everyone says "How dare you look at this situation, this person would be a great asset" you also need to ask a few questions.
You said that you have caught this girl lying about multiple things, are these things that you feel you could bring up her membership about? or just random things and this particular issue you feel you could bring her membership on?

As for having members with children, I think it depends on two things.
Your campus' Greek Life and your chapter's involvement.

For instance, at my campus it wouldn't have been a really big problem. But, at my campus we only had 7 sororities, and total was 95. I was also in a smaller school located in the south. Down there women get married at 16 and 17 (yes, it is true) and have children early, too. So it really isn't a big deal.

Now, if I were at a campus that had TONS of greek involvement and TONS of chapters and such it may be more difficult. With all of the mandatory events, and obligations we had just in our chapter (at a school with a small greek life) I know it would be difficult to maintain those requirements. That being said if I had been at a school that more than we did, it would be nearly impossible.
Think about it- all of our retreats were mandatory, recruitment workshops, RUSH (can a woman really be away from her child for basically two weeks?), initiation and preinitiation events, certain campus wide events like Greek Week, All sings, etc.

Okay, I already know the argument against this- That potential member with a child has thought about this before hand and they know what to expect.
My rebuttal- NO THEY DON'T. You only partially know when you pledge how much time it takes to balance your social life, your sorority, your school and maybe a job. Add in family life if you go home some.... now... I sure as heck did not know that for two weeks in August my life would be nothing but AGD- and I was fine with it, but I didn't have a son or daughter.

Being in a sorority has its responsibilities too. I am not saying DONT pledge women with children, not at all. I am saying that perhaps in certain places it is not wise. At my school, it would have been fine, at other schools probably not.

On a side note- we had an LC come visit us while I was a collegian and she told us about a woman that came through rush and brought her 2 year old daughter to all the parties. She quit rush because she didn't realize how hard it would be, but for the first rounds there was a two year old running around.

Different orgs have different rules on sisters that are married and sisters that have children. My chapter doesn't have a problem with married sisters but a Phi Mu at my school said that any girl that gets married is forced to go alum. At the KD chapter at my school you can't have children and be active. Just different orgs have different rules and for different reasons.

My point- there are legit reasons for not having members with children at some places. I do not think that IMAGE is a legit reason, but I know that obligations are.

MysticCat · #15 10-23-2002, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lindz928 (in part)
There is the image issue, (how will it look to others on your campus). We also couldn't understand what she would really get out of being in a sorority. I guess it just seemed like she wouldn't have anything in common with most of the other girls. Also, why would you want to be spending so much money to join a sorority when you have a child to take care of? If I were her, I would have rather spent that money on my child. This probably all sounds very superficial to some people, but think about it.

Okay, I've thought about it, and you're right -- It sounds very superficial. What would you have had in common? You and your sisters might have been surprised how much you had in common, how much you could have grown from having this woman as a member of your sorority, and how much you might have been able to offer her. Too bad. You may have lost out on a really great sister.

From my vantage point, there is no better image for a GLO to project than valuing true sisterhood/brotherhood above all else. Just my $0.02.