Openly Gay Members

[SNUIGC]

Alright, so I was wondering everybody's take on this subject matter. Basically, long story short, we have a candidate who's going through the candidate process this semester and he's openly gay. I mean, the guy's really great, he's active in everything, helps out all the time, played football in HS so is great in intermurals, etc, etc, etc. So, I mean, he's just an all around great guy, otherwise we would never have extended a bid. (just because we're small doesn't mean we take everyone)

My only concern is what effect that might have on future potentials. I mean, we don't have a problem with it... but, it is Mississippi. Obviously we'd never kick the guy out or even say it might even remotely be a problem; however, the possibility is still there.

Has anybody else have/had this issue come up in your own chapters?

[ZK761]

We had this situation before too (though he ended up quitting half way through). We basically said if potentials have a problem if/when he does cross over then they aren't people we want in our house. We pride ourselves on the diversity within the house.

[Kevin]

We had at least one closeted homosexual when I was active -- probably more.

Our active chapter recently had a guy come out. As far as I know, it hasn't effected anything at all. Edmond, Oklahoma is probably as conservative as anywhere in Mississippi.

[KyleMcGuire1983]

Well we have two openly gay brothers at my chapter (then again it's the San Francisco Bay Area so it's considered normal here) with no problems at all.

Just remember the oath you took and remember what Sigma Nu stands for. Is it Honorable to depledge him based on something he can't change? Is it Honorable to bow to what other people think if what they think is wrong?

I guess just try and think about what the Honorable thing to do is.

[SNUIGC]

Alright, thanks for the input... I mean, the guy's great... actually, if it wasn't for me dragging him into a meeting I don't think he'd ever pledge anywhere (was too afraid of what might go on and all). ...and, I must admit, if we did the whole big/little at my chapter here, I'd definitely want the guy as my little.

It's just one of those things where there's the personal side of something...and then there's the business side of it. Personally, like I stated while voting on bidding, "If anybody says anything about this guy's being gay, lets go outside and I'll beat your ass." ...but, on the flipside, I still have to try and think about all that. ...then again, when you're the first "traditionally white" fraternity to integrate and have non-white members, what's with going further? haha

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by SNUIGC

Alright, thanks for the input... I mean, the guy's great... actually, if it wasn't for me dragging him into a meeting I don't think he'd ever pledge anywhere (was too afraid of what might go on and all). ...and, I must admit, if we did the whole big/little at my chapter here, I'd definitely want the guy as my little.

It's just one of those things where there's the personal side of something...and then there's the business side of it. Personally, like I stated while voting on bidding, "If anybody says anything about this guy's being gay, lets go outside and I'll beat your ass." ...but, on the flipside, I still have to try and think about all that. ...then again, when you're the first "traditionally white" fraternity to integrate and have non-white members, what's with going further? haha

crash/

Not like integrating based on race and ethnicity is exactly the same as integrating based on sexual orientation, but I see your point about inclusion. Your fraternity and maybe your chapter (depending on how old and big your chapter is) have always had gay members--this is just the first openly gay member at your chapter. That puts it all in perspective.

The business is all the same, of course. With the personal, just be careful about making heterocentric and bigoted comments that a lot of people make because they assume they are surrounded by heterosexuals all the time.

Lastly, this guy's open homosexuality is more than likely no different than your open heterosexuality. As long as he isn't trying to be flamboyant with it, it won't be an issue. Flamboyant heterosexuality and flamboyant homosexuality are both annoying because it confuses sexuality with masculinity and is basically trying waaaaay too hard.

Good luck!

/crash

[Kevin]

Not like integrating based on race and ethnicity is exactly the same as integrating based on sexual orientation

That's more spot on than you give yourself credit for. Sigma Nu does have a bit of a checkered history when it comes to inclusiveness.

Looking at some of my own old posts, I don't know how I'd have dealt with this situation. My concerns (rush) would have been there, but on my campus, at the time, ACACIA had a few members come out. This garnered them a lot of negative attention. For example, my younger brother, an ATO, was quite proud of himself for taking part in a "prank" where the ATO's spraypainted rainbows onto a fence on the ACACIAs' property which turned out towards a major road. Despite that negative attention, however, ACACIA is still, as far as I know, the largest fraternity on my campus.

I think this reputation for inclusiveness gained them more pledges than they lost.

Also, as an epilogue to that little story, ATO lost its charter last year, probably due to hazing, alcohol violations, low membership, or a combination of those three things. I was pretty glad to see them go. They had been the sole reason our campus turned super dry in my second year of school (had a pledge pass out in the middle of the road, getting run over during a weekend camping trip/haze-fest).

[Benzgirl]

/crashing
From a girl in a sorority.... when I was in school, we knew several members of "top" fraternities that were openly gay. It didn't matter to us.

They were typically very active in Student Government, were on the Homecoming Court and were all-around strong members of their houses (many were chapter presidents). Girls loved them because they were always great dates to formals or felt they could confide in them if they had a "crush" in the house.

Unless you think he is a deadbeat, I would stress the important things that he could contribute to the chapter. Would it be any different if he was heterosexual but dated only girls that had pink hair and tatoos over her body?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That's more spot on than you give yourself credit for. Sigma Nu does have a bit of a checkered history when it comes to inclusiveness.

Looking at some of my own old posts, I don't know how I'd have dealt with this situation. My concerns (rush) would have been there, but on my campus, at the time, ACACIA had a few members come out. This garnered them a lot of negative attention. For example, my younger brother, an ATO, was quite proud of himself for taking part in a "prank" where the ATO's spraypainted rainbows onto a fence on the ACACIAs' property which turned out towards a major road. Despite that negative attention, however, ACACIA is still, as far as I know, the largest fraternity on my campus.

I think this reputation for inclusiveness gained them more pledges than they lost.

Also, as an epilogue to that little story, ATO lost its charter last year, probably due to hazing, alcohol violations, low membership, or a combination of those three things. I was pretty glad to see them go. They had been the sole reason our campus turned super dry in my second year of school (had a pledge pass out in the middle of the road, getting run over during a weekend camping trip/haze-fest).

This gets us further into a great topic that is a huge hijack. I'm sure we've discussed homosexuality in our organizations on GC over the years. Maybe it's time for an updated thread to see how progressive (in practice, not just theory) folks have become over the years.

[banditone]

We never had an openly gay active member.

Now, once alumni status was reached, 1 or 2 have come out of the closet. It sucks, but the way most campuses work is once you become the "gay house" you are stuck with that label and it hurts the chapter usually.

[KyleMcGuire1983]

Well then again I'm in California and I know of a gay Kappa Sig, and I'm pretty sure there are others on campus as well.

Diversity is the only way you'll survive as a Greek org in my neck of the woods. The best way to get members is to look in every corner and recruit guys of all colors and cultures...as long as they aren't deadbeats or shady

[SigmaNuHX766]

HX chapter has a few openly gay and a few not-openly gay brothers. I've found that out of the many guys I've seen come through this chapter since 2005, they have been some of our most productive, helpful, and dedicated members.

Our chapter enjoys its diversity.

One rather funny incident though... Events Management in our student center double booked our open-mic night Rush event with ODU-OUT's Open-mic night (ODU-OUT is a support org for GLBT students). We were fine with this... they were not. We've actually co-sponsored events with them in the past, but their new leadership is REALLLLY anti-Greek to the point that it's almost laughable.

Anyways, one of our brothers who is openly gay introduced himself on stage, in letters, saying: "Hi everyone... My name is ***** of the Sigma Nu fraternity, and you CAN be queer and go Greek!" *crowd uproar from the ODU-OUT audience members* "I know, because I AM GAY. I have a poem to read..."

You guys should have seen the looks on their faces. They've been nicer about the Greek-bashing since then.


Also, there was an incident involving lawyers with one of our candidates that we refused to initiate. He wasn't openly gay, and no one knew he was gay... but he felt as though he was being persecuted. In actuality, he skipped out on the check a few times when eating out with brothers, adding up to ~$60 in the end, which he lied about later, and was also outwardly rude to most of the other candidates and brothers. We denied him for the 2nd semester in a row. He lost a lot of money on those lawyers he hired, I bet.

[Kevin]

Really? He filed an anti-discrimination suit?? Oh wow.. I'm really surprised a lawyer even took that case. If they did, surely they didn't actually file anything with the court.

As long as you don't keep minutes and vote counts for new member votes, you should be in the clear. I'm not a huge fan of discrimination based on something someone can't control, but I'm even less of a fan of force feeding a chapter "diversity" at the expense of their autonomy and freedom.

[KyleMcGuire1983]

I don't know, most of our brothers are super into diversity...seeing it as our biggest strength etc. etc. I don't really take much value in the diversity stuff. To me it's a non-issue, it doesn't bother me but it doesn't make me like my chapter any better.

As for the incident at Old Dominion......don't you think it's funny that the President of ODU-OUT is HIMSELF a discriminator?! I guess it's still politically correct to hate on greeks!

[alphasigeptau]

Im an openly gay guy in a fraternity and i know that most of the men who join ours are well aware of it, i say that if you have members that have a problem with it and all your brothers are ok with it, your brotherhood should be strong enough to say, we dont want this guy in our fraternity if he is going to treat our brother like this, i know thats how my chapter functions, its alot more interesting being in the bible belt though