Motivate or punish?

[sandiego_DUde]

My house has 20 guys, and most are pretty lazy. Our school has an annual Standards of Excellence (SOE) binder due, as I'm sure all of yours do, to prove that we do more than just party. We need a minimum if 65% to pass, which shouldn't be hard, but less guys care than are on our exec board.

Points can be gotten for SOE for things such as "Send 50% of your chapter to (school hosted presentation) on (topic)" or even for having 25% participate in an event during Greek Week. There are only 4 other guys in my house that I can rely on to show up for anything, but we're annoyed that we're the ones that always have to show up to these things, and it's sometimes not enough. They're not always exciting but someone has to go and since nobody else will, we do.

So here's my point: we're enacting a "points system" in which we give one point to every event, announced at meeting, and those 3 with the least points have to be Sober Bros (starter idea). There are problems with this, namely that we don't even party that often. I feel like there needs to be something more than that, something that'll really hit home with people, but we can't fine members. Maybe there's something so obvious I haven't thought of it yet but I need something that can be effectively enforced to "punish" members and get the needed number of bros at events.

I've seen a lot of posts regarding points systems sororities use, but fraternities are run by a completely different set of rules. Any ideas you have will be greatly appreciated.

[Gusteau]

In regards to point systems, I think they rarely work with fraternities. My colony (now chapter) had one that was already in disuse and abolished before I joined. I wasn't around though so I can't really assess why it didn't work. But if you don't have a lot of parties your punishment itsn't effective and certainly won't change their attitude. In fact, I doubt any type of point system will reinvigorate them.

I think the people in your chapter are the core issue, and a point system won't heal that. You need to motivate them, and get them excited about your fraternity again. Do you have chapter retreats? It's a great venue to get to the heart of the issue and find out a. why they're disenchanted with the chapter, b. what the chapter can do to reengage them, and c. to see who actually cares. From there you need to do two things. First, cut the dead weight. Get rid of the guys that are pulling you down, this isn't about "feelings" this is about the life of your chapter - get rid of them, they're poison to the rest of the membership. Second, start enacting the changes you need to reengage the remaining members.

How is your chapter's committee system? My chapter is similarly sized, so almost every member is a committee chairman. This is a great way to get these men actively involved in your chapter. Have the Vice President (or whatever corresponding internal officer you have) chair weekly meeting of all the committee chairman where they discuss the ideas they have for their committees and work with each other to make their events and projects successful.

Also, recruitment. Are you working to actively recruit better guys? It will likely happen that those four guys will do all of the recruitment work. Don't let them get upset by this, its the 80-20 rule at work (80% of the work is done by 20% of the members, a typical formula for most organizations, greek and otherwise), and there's not too much you can do to avoid that. Just be confident that your active motivated members are recruiting men like themselves who will work for your chapter.

Don't forget, you need to motivate your members enough to actually get them to do these things, so work on that first.

[sandiego_DUde]

I'd love to cut the dead weight but if we did, we probably wouldn't even have 10 guys and we need 20 to be recognized by the school. I like the idea of the retreat to assess "why?" because I know in order to solve a problem, you have to understand its source. With three weeks left in the semester, however, there's not time for a retreat so while I'll definitely consider it for next semester, I am still looking for something more lasting and more immediate...

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde

So here's my point: we're enacting a "points system" in which we give one point to every event, announced at meeting, and those 3 with the least points have to be Sober Bros (starter idea). There are problems with this, namely that we don't even party that often. I feel like there needs to be something more than that, something that'll really hit home with people, but we can't fine members. Maybe there's something so obvious I haven't thought of it yet but I need something that can be effectively enforced to "punish" members and get the needed number of bros at events.

I've seen a lot of posts regarding points systems sororities use, but fraternities are run by a completely different set of rules. Any ideas you have will be greatly appreciated.

The problem you're having isn't that brothers aren't showing up, it's that brothers have no reason to show up to anything. You said it yourself, you don't party that much.

Why on earth would anyone show up to some SoE bs, especially if they get no benefit. And you can spare all that PC horseshit about how fraternities aren't just about partying. No, they're not. But that will ALWAYS be one of the main reasons people join and it always has been.

If you can't even get together on your own to knock a few back, then why on earth SHOULD anyone feel bad for not doing community service or whatever?

One more thing, if you go ahead with point system, since that something sororities do, you will loose potential members.

[sandiego_DUde]

It seems to me that you're saying that without partying, people have no incentive to do anything. Being a member of a fraternity enables you to certain privileges, but it also comes with certain responsibilities. SOE, BS though it may often be, is not optional and Fraternity is an obligation. Since my guys obviously don't feel the need naturally, lighting a little fire under them couldn't really hurt. It'll definitely test their commitment and if they want to drop, I guess it's not the end of the world; we'll get more in the fall.

To use parties as the only incentive gives, in my opinion, the wrong impression of what we stand for. I'm set on the "points" idea, regardless of potential negative side effects while people get used to it, because I feel like it's for the best in the long run. I'm wondering whether any chapters have incentives/punishments that are effective other than fines and social probation?

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde

It seems to me that you're saying that without partying, people have no incentive to do anything. Being a member of a fraternity enables you to certain privileges, but it also comes with certain responsibilities. SOE, BS though it may often be, is not optional and Fraternity is an obligation. Since my guys obviously don't feel the need naturally, lighting a little fire under them couldn't really hurt. It'll definitely test their commitment and if they want to drop, I guess it's not the end of the world; we'll get more in the fall. To use parties as the only incentive gives, in my opinion, the wrong impression of what we stand for.

I think what RU OX Alum means is that parties is really the base level of fraternal involvement. I'm not talking about big events either, hanging our in a party setting with your brothers is a pretty standard - and it doesn't compromise "what we stand for." So if your chapter isn't doing the basic stuff you probably aren't doing much else of anything. If you want an incentive for your members try giving them something to do in the chapter. You need to go back to the core and figure out why they joined, and what hasn't lived up to their expectation.

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde

I'm set on the "points" idea, regardless of potential negative side effects while people get used to it, because I feel like it's for the best in the long run. I'm wondering whether any chapters have incentives/punishments that are effective other than fines and social probation?

If you're set on doing something we've told you doesn't work go for it, but don't ask for advice if you're not going to consider it.

Also, fines work; I hate it when chapter's don't fine.

[sandiego_DUde]

I wish we could fine but we aren't allowed. I don't know who set this rule but it can't be easily changed, if at all. Definitely a shame.

The reason our social schedule is lacking is because it's the one thing we have to hold over people. We don't typically have parties unless we (the execs) feel that the house earned it, which only requires getting 50% of the house to 2 events a week. When people aren't willing to put in that little effort, there's no reason they should get to party.

Doling out responsibility (in response to your suggestion of giving people something to do) won't help either because 3 of our execs don't even do the job they're required to do and NOBODY else wants to fill them.

It's not that I don't value other opinions, I guess I'm just realizing I may be fighting a battle that can't be won. If partying isn't enough to get people going, I don't know what is. I don't believe the 80-20 Rule has to be the case but after two years of dealing with apathy, my "optimism" seems more like unrealistic expectations but I don't want to give up on these guys. Is it so wrong to hold people to a higher standard than they hold themselves?

[sandiego_DUde]

I liked the idea of finding out why people have become disheartened in order to get them re-motivated. Probably the best idea in here so thank you for that, Gusteau. Is it pushing it to still want to have a back-up plan? I find it hard to believe one idea alone will solve all our problems. After all, "the best way to have a good idea is to have a lot of ideas."

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde

It seems to me that you're saying that without partying, people have no incentive to do anything. Being a member of a fraternity enables you to certain privileges, but it also comes with certain responsibilities. SOE, BS though it may often be, is not optional and Fraternity is an obligation. Since my guys obviously don't feel the need naturally, lighting a little fire under them couldn't really hurt. It'll definitely test their commitment and if they want to drop, I guess it's not the end of the world; we'll get more in the fall.

To use parties as the only incentive gives, in my opinion, the wrong impression of what we stand for. I'm set on the "points" idea, regardless of potential negative side effects while people get used to it, because I feel like it's for the best in the long run. I'm wondering whether any chapters have incentives/punishments that are effective other than fines and social probation?

True, but if the responsibilities outweigh the priveledges, it becomes a total waste of time. Which is why your brothers aren't showing up when you want them to. Basically, if I were your brother, what I would basically tell, if I could even be bothered, is that if I'm not cool enough for the friday night party (you're college and it's friday night, if you're not partying something is wrong with you) then I'm not cool enough to go with you to SoE.

[rufio]

we've had this problem too. you cant force brothers who dont want to participate to participate. The best way to cure this apathy is to recruit. with the semester ending there's not much you can do now, but if you and the other 'work horses' start planning fall recruitment, you have the potential to take in a huge class. then from that class say you get 5 more brothers willing to work. ideally the plan is that through quantity, you can get quality brothers and eventually start trimming the fat.

[Gusteau]

I think you and your Exec has an us against them mentality that's only compounding the issue. You need to work with them to find a solution that serves both parties. A compromise is going to involve sacrifices from both sides, so be prepared for that. The central theme of the discussion should be why each of you joined your chapter and how you can get that out of your chapter again.

Is the fines thing an inter/national ruling? If so that sucks, if its a chapter by-law that still sucks because I can't imagine anyone in your chapter voting for it. Just curious.

ETA: Rufio and I posted at the same time, but he's also correct. Recruit, recruit, recruit!

[rufio]

gusteau, i dont know why, but not many DU chapters at least in the province that sandiego_DUde and I are from, dont fine.

sandiego_DUde,
try utilizing you're newly initiated brothers as work horses. many of them should still be 'riding the high' after pledging and are probably more than willing to work. i've seen brothers who were lay abouts do complete 180s when younger members start gaining status over them.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde

I liked the idea of finding out why people have become disheartened in order to get them re-motivated.

I'd make a guess it has something to do with this attitude:

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde

The reason our social schedule is lacking is because it's the one thing we have to hold over people. We don't typically have parties unless we (the execs) feel that the house earned it, which only requires getting 50% of the house to 2 events a week. When people aren't willing to put in that little effort, there's no reason they should get to party.

You need balance between responsibility and fun. You need the social side to foster comraderie and a sense of in-it-togetherness. If it's all obligation, it's not worth the effort to participate.

Gusteau (and the others) are right -- you've created an us-against-them dynamic between the exec board and the chapter. To be honest, I'd resent the hell out of it if I were on the receiving end of it.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by rufio

gusteau, i dont know why, but not many DU chapters at least in the province that sandiego_DUde and I are from, dont fine.

sandiego_DUde,
try utilizing you're newly initiated brothers as work horses. many of them should still be 'riding the high' after pledging and are probably more than willing to work. i've seen brothers who were lay abouts do complete 180s when younger members start gaining status over them.

Very interesting...

And you're very right, younger members can revitalize a chapter if they have the right guidance and encouragement.

[sandiego_DUde]

We didn't actually get a pledge class this spring, which definitely disappointed a lot of guys. I think it's fair to say that us "workhorses" are the ones who see that this is time to work harder, not give up. Though it's been explained, I'm not sure everyone understands that there are certain minimum standards in order for us to keep our charter, even when things look bleak - especially at such a time, really.

A lot of hope is put into each rush, but usually too much: people expect that the new guys will take over each semester and use it as an excuse to give up, as though they've "done their time" now that they're initiated. Even if people are, for any reason, filled with this newfound drive to fulfill their fraternal expectations (to which they are sworn by oath), what's to keep them from giving up when faced with others' apathy? Many of us "workhorses" are third years and we want to leave something in place for when we graduate next year, so that we don't leave with "Good luck" but with "You know what to do and I believe in you." It scares me to think what will happen when we go since so many new members' drives are dampened by the pessimism of the actives above them and they feel that it's ok to give up since so many others have. There aren't currently enough younger guys who want to learn how to replace us and you can't teach what someone doesn't want to learn.