University of Kentucky/Delta Tau Delta drug-trafficking case

[SOM]

News is just full ;>( of this stuff today:
Grand jury to review University of Kentucky student's drug-trafficking case
Read more: http://www.kentucky.com/2010/12/08/1557789/grand-jury-to-get-university-of.html#ixzz17YIDj200

A Fayette County grand jury will review the case of a University of Kentucky student accused of selling marijuana from the Delta Tau Delta Fraternity House, according to court records.

[Preston327]

Oh no such a nice house too...I suppose all the facts will come out in trial but I'm willing to bet this young man has already been convicted in the court of public conscience. I'm no fan of the current drug laws but they are what they are and unfortunately it seems he broke them.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Preston327

Oh no such a nice house too...I suppose all the facts will come out in trial but I'm willing to bet this young man has already been convicted in the court of public conscience. I'm no fan of the current drug laws but they are what they are and unfortunately it seems he broke them.

Delta Tau Delta is a strong chapter at UK. They own the house and have lots of active – and influential - alumni. I suspect that if the chapter is put on any sort of probation or suspension, they will be back - strong as ever.

[SOM]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Delta Tau Delta is a strong chapter at UK. They own the house and have lots of active – and influential - alumni. I suspect that if the chapter is put on any sort of probation or suspension, they will be back - strong as ever.

TSteven: Your POV may be dead on correct.
However the days of big, strong, old chapters with high powered alumni getting a free pass or a slap on the wrist are starting to end.

The schools just do not take all too kindly to it any more.
The Nationals just do not take all to kindly to it any more.
The city/state just do not take all to kindly to it any more.
And the alumni are getting a bit wiser as well.

As with all of these matters, only time will tell.

And in truth, from what story has, it is only one student charged. Not the chapter house.
Unlike the situation over in NYC at Columbia U.
And those chapters are just about DOA.

[Preston327]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Delta Tau Delta is a strong chapter at UK. They own the house and have lots of active – and influential - alumni. I suspect that if the chapter is put on any sort of probation or suspension, they will be back - strong as ever.

I have no doubt at all about that, but as SOM said the days of alumni being able to intercede for the sins of their actives are coming to an end in a lot of places. While I don't know what Kentucky's campus culture is like by any means I'm kind of worried for my brothers at UK that the unwise actions of this one brother might cause them all to be tarred with the same brush by the campus/Nationals, and possibly sanctioned for something that they didn't do and quite possibly had little knowledge of.

[SOM]

Originally Posted by Preston327

I have no doubt at all about that, but as SOM said the days of alumni being able to intercede for the sins of their actives are coming to an end in a lot of places. While I don't know what Kentucky's campus culture is like by any means I'm kind of worried for my brothers at UK that the unwise actions of this one brother might cause them all to be tarred with the same brush by the campus/Nationals, and possibly sanctioned for something that they didn't do and quite possibly had little knowledge of.

I agree with you Preston327.
And I understand and respect your thoughts and feelings about the chapter and your Fraternity.

[TSteven]

Perhaps I should have expanded on some my assessment.

Originally Posted by SOM

TSteven: Your POV may be dead on correct.
However the days of big, strong, old chapters with high powered alumni getting a free pass or a slap on the wrist are starting to end.

The schools just do not take all too kindly to it any more.
The Nationals just do not take all too kindly to it any more.
The city/state just do not take all too kindly to it any more.
And the alumni are getting a bit wiser as well.

As with all of these matters, only time will tell.

And in truth, from what story has, it is only one student charged. Not the chapter house.
Unlike the situation over in NYC at Columbia U.
And those chapters are just about DOA.

My reply to Preston327 was what I had interpreted as his concern that the UK Delts might lose their physical house. I don’t see that happening because of the support of the chapters’ alumni. I personally know a few who worked on the expansion and upgrade of the house. I would be shocked to hear that these gentlemen would let anything happen to the physical house if there was a probation or suspension. As such, as I noted, *if* the whole chapter were to be on probation or suspended, the physical house will remain with the Housing Corporation. Sorry I was not clear about that.

Originally Posted by Preston327

I have no doubt at all about that, but as SOM said the days of alumni being able to intercede for the sins of their actives are coming to an end in a lot of places. While I don't know what Kentucky's campus culture is like by any means I'm kind of worried for my brothers at UK that the unwise actions of this one brother might cause them all to be tarred with the same brush by the campus/Nationals, and possibly sanctioned for something that they didn't do and quite possibly had little knowledge of.

One thing I can say for my alma mater is that with respect to Greek Life, they seem fair. If the University finds that an individual member – or members – are to blame, then it is likely that only the individual(s) will be held responsible. And whatever punishment is warranted will be dealt out to them. If the University finds that the chapter – as a “whole” – has responsibility, I would expect the University to put the chapter on some sort of probation or suspension.

Now unless things have drastically changed - and some of the other UK folk might be able to chime in here to confirm one way or the other – the UK Delta Tau Delta chapter has a good reputation. So I would anticipate a “worse case” scenario of perhaps a two year probation or suspension if the whole chapter is found at fault. And like other UK chapters, they would be allowed to return after serving their probation/suspension.

Because the “physical house” is the property of the UK Delta Tau Delta Housing Corporation (or whatever it may be called), once the chapter returns, they will be able to recruit out of that “physical house”. Which is an important in rush at UK. And again, unless things have changed, the Delt name should attract “quality” men in seeking membership within the chapter. So *if* there is some sort of suspension or probation, I would expect the chapter to return to being a "top" chapter quickly. They are that strong.

Now what Delta Tau Delta HQ does is another thing. But I doubt they would permanently revoke UK’s charter over this. But I am not a Delt so how this plays out, we shall just have to wait and see.

My roommate from my freshman year is a Delt. And as I noted before, I am friends with other UK Delts as well. As such, I have nothing but respect for the UK Delta Tau Delta chapter and wish them the best.

[SOM]

TSteven:
I may have taken your first comment too far to the extreme.
Thank you for taking the time and effort in clarifying them in a gentleman like way.

I do believe that our thoughts and wishes are in agreement.
SOM

[ebdelt]

Really unfortunate. The UK Delt house itself is probably one of the nicest of any Delt chapter in the nation. I'll admit my bias, but I really hope they are able to stay on campus. I know he was caught dealing to his friends in the fraternity but one man's actions should not cost an entire fraternity their charter. Then again it seems like the Greek life office has been cracking down hard. They've kicked off 3 fraternities in I think the past two years, and two were very well established chapters to my knowledge.

And if we're being honest, it would naive to think there was a fraternity on campus that didn't smoke weed and I'm willing to bet others have a kid dealing in the house. Yes it's incredibly stupid but I don't think it's right to kick everyone out because of it. Maybe nationals will come in and do a membership evaluation of the entire fraternity. Either way, the chapter is going to be put through the ringer.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens. I'm willing to bet the UK Delt alumni and the national office will try to do what they can to save the chapter from getting kicked off campus. I believe the current Kentucky governor and the governor before him were both UK Delts.

[Preston327]

http://kykernel.com/2010/12/07/delta...g-trafficking/
Things aren't looking good for our boys in Kentucky. Kid copped to selling to 30 of his brothers, I'd be surprised if they (the campus and/or Central Office) didn't come down hard on these guys.

[elicampbell]

TSteven when were you at U of K? I grew up south of Lex. I knew some Delts at UK. this the third big ( man power wise) fraternity chapter to get in trouble on campus.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by ebdelt

Really unfortunate. The UK Delt house itself is probably one of the nicest of any Delt chapter in the nation.

Coming from a chapter that has a friendly "rivalry" (at least when I was there) with the Delts, I hate to admit that the Delt house is amazing.

Originally Posted by ebdelt

I'll admit my bias, but I really hope they are able to stay on campus. I know he was caught dealing to his friends in the fraternity but one man's actions should not cost an entire fraternity their charter. Then again it seems like the Greek life office has been cracking down hard. They've kicked off 3 fraternities in I think the past two years, and two were very well established chapters to my knowledge.

And if we're being honest, it would naive to think there was a fraternity on campus that didn't smoke weed and I'm willing to bet others have a kid dealing in the house. Yes it's incredibly stupid but I don't think it's right to kick everyone out because of it. Maybe nationals will come in and do a membership evaluation of the entire fraternity. Either way, the chapter is going to be put through the ringer.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens. I'm willing to bet the UK Delt alumni and the national office will try to do what they can to save the chapter from getting kicked off campus. I believe the current Kentucky governor and the governor before him were both UK Delts.

Originally Posted by Preston327

http://kykernel.com/2010/12/07/delta...g-trafficking/
Things aren't looking good for our boys in Kentucky. Kid copped to selling to 30 of his brothers, I'd be surprised if they (the campus and/or Central Office) didn't come down hard on these guys.

The UK Administration seems to have a good track record of separating what may be an individual/single member problem/issue versus a chapter wide problem/issue. Plus, they seem to be able to weight the seriousness of the problem/issue and administer punishment as “fits the crime” – so to speak. Basically, the UK Administration does not overreact and will work with the chapter's HQ regarding any punishment.

At this time, the unknown is if a member was selling to 30 other members was “known” or “sanctioned” in any form by the chapter as a whole.

So if it is a chapter problem, then yes, UK will most likely suspend the chapter. However, if the issue/problem is with one or X number of members - again, not a chapter related issue - the UK Administration will deal with the individuals. And leave any further chapter punishment to the Fraternity.

Now how Delta Tau Delta HQ handles this is a different issue. If what has been reported is true, I could see the Delt HQ saying that there are 30 members doing illegal drugs and as such, either suspend the chapter or conduct a membership review.

Originally Posted by elicampbell

TSteven when were you at U of K? I grew up south of Lex. I knew some Delts at UK.

I was at UK in the late 70s early 80s. I have family and friends that are currently connected to various chapters (members, advisors, active alumni) at UK too.

Originally Posted by elicampbell

This the third big ( man power wise) fraternity chapter to get in trouble on campus.

UK came down on these three chapters because their problems/issues were considered “chapter wide”. Thus they were suspended. But I would note that UK also said that after the chapters serve their suspensions, they are welcome to return to the UK campus. Having said that, it will be up to each of the chapters’ HQs as to when and how they return. But I anticipate all three will return.

If the UK Delta Tau Delta chapter is suspended as well, I anticipate them to return too.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Preston327

http://kykernel.com/2010/12/07/delta...g-trafficking/
Things aren't looking good for our boys in Kentucky. Kid copped to selling to 30 of his brothers, I'd be surprised if they (the campus and/or Central Office) didn't come down hard on these guys.

To be fair, he said most of his 30 or so clients were brothers, but not all.

Either way, I'm with you about the drug laws. I disagree with them, but they do exist and they do have consequences. Hopefully he wasn't selling directly out of his room...I bet that will make a difference to the campus staff.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

To be fair, he said most of his 30 or so clients were brothers, but not all.

Either way, I'm with you about the drug laws. I disagree with them, but they do exist and they do have consequences. Hopefully he wasn't selling directly out of his room...I bet that will make a difference to the campus staff.

You bring up an interesting situation. The Delta Tau Delta House is considered by the University as an off-campus residency. As such, the University does not have any “jurisdiction” over what happens at the physical house per say. However, there are rules/guidelines that cover all GLOs and their members regardless where they live. Plus all students fall under the student code of conduct.

With the other three chapters that were recently suspended, all three had "on-campus" housing. So in this situation, it will be interesting to see what the consequences might be based on jurisdiction and code of conduct.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by TSteven

You bring up an interesting situation. The Delta Tau Delta House is considered by the University as an off-campus residency. As such, the University does not have any “jurisdiction” over what happens at the physical house per say. However, there are rules/guidelines that cover all GLOs and their members regardless where they live. Plus all students fall under the student code of conduct.

With the other three chapters that were recently suspended, all three had "on-campus" housing. So in this situation, it will be interesting to see what the consequences might be based on jurisdiction and code of conduct.

My line of thinking is that if he was selling out of the house it would be easier to argue "guilty by association" since most of the residents would probably have at least been aware of his routine drug use and the visitors coming in and out quickly and frequently. (Not that I'm assuming most of his chapter knew about it, I'm just playing devil's advocate and looking through the school's eyes). It could turn into more ammuniation against the chapter instead of against a few individuals...though for the record I personally hope the participants are punished, not the entire chapter.