A local sorority at USC?

[SC2013]

I'd like your thoughts on how plausible starting a local sorority at USC would be.

Our school has a very, very established Greek system, with "tiers" that have been kind of set in stone and things like that. However, more and more students rush every year, and pledge classes are just getting bigger and more and more PNMs are dropping. (Over 1000 girls rushed in the fall, maybe 600-700 stayed around long enough to get bids, pledge classes were in the 60s.) There are currently 11 sororities: 8 that have no problem making quota/having successful formal recruitment, 1 that has been around just as long as the other 8 but has a hard time during formal recruitment, 1 that went from being a local around the 2003 mark into a chapter of SDT that chooses to not participate in formal recruitment, and ADChi a Christian-values oriented sorority.

I personally am already involved in a professional fraternity, but I believe that the bonds of sisterhood are something that cannot be replaced by any other kind of organization. Of course, by reading my past posts, you can see that I have gone through formal recruitment but didn't receive a bid to a house I'd be comfortable in. I wouldn't even consider starting a local sorority (that would perhaps become a Chi Omega, or Sigma Kappa, or Kappa Delta, or another chapter that at one time was at USC but isn't active currently) if I didn't see how crazy the numbers are concerning recruitment. Also, considering a local chapter recently became a NPC sorority, there perhaps is a chance for success.

So what do you think? Is it too soon for another local to be established, while one FR chapter is struggling and two others are relatively new? Would this sorority have to bring something new to the table, or would being a local instead of a national already be that "something new"?

Another note: I really like what Kappa Delta in particular stands for. With four national philanthropies and especially their work with Dove Campaign for Real Beauty (perhaps what USC needs), I feel like their national focus on helping out the community brings a lot to the table without being strictly a community service fraternity. Also, yes I'm nerding out but I like their symbols. There used to be a chapter at USC as well, at least according to Wikipedia that says Joan Lowery Nixon was a Theta Sigma...but she graduated in 1947...There are a few chapters in California, such as at UCLA, but I don't know if their alumni presence is as strong as, say, Pi Beta Phi or Kappa Alpha Theta in California. I could be wrong!

I feel like, as great as our Greek system is and how well-rounded our members are, most chapters do not really fit closely to their national mottos and creeds to better themselves academically, philanthropically, but only socially. I would want to form a local sorority that focuses most strongly on I suppose the more "serious" side of what being a sorority member means. I'm not saying it would be all work and no play, but I mean philanthropies wouldn't just be about getting drunk in the middle of the day on campus. I mean girls attracted to this kind of sorority wouldn't feel like they're doing the community a favor by waking up at 9am on Saturday for a beach cleanup. I mean if your motto is "Let us strive for that which is honorable, beautiful and highest," you follow it and don't just paint it somewhere in your house to pass by while you get ready to prance down the Row in a micromini.

I guess I'm thinking about all of this during the recent backlash our community's gotten. And it made me think, getting in trouble for all these things won't change anything except put bad behavior underground. For the most part, fraternities are about getting hazed until they become active members, at which point they'll have a house that won't deny them entry to Thursday night parties. Sororities are about getting the hottest members to "best represent" themselves, and sending their most attractive members to the "best" frats, and spending the most time and effort on only a few "top" fraternity philanthropies. And then requiring a couple hours community service. That's just the environment the Row is in right now...of course, I feel like individually Greek students don't act this way but somehow when the entire system comes together that's what's happened. Our president put the Greek system on probation, and that's not going to have current members question their behaviors and the status quo. They're just mad they can't party.

That's not what the GC community is about. That's not what being an alumni, being a member for life, is about. I feel like our school's Greek system in general has deviated too far from what each national organization stands for, and I'd like to return to those roots. Am I SOL?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Okay, first of all, you are saying a lot of nasty things about chapters you once wanted to join, so you sound like sour grapes. Cut that out.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by SC2013

I'd like your thoughts on how plausible starting a local sorority at USC would be.

Our school has a very, very established Greek system, with "tiers" that have been kind of set in stone and things like that. However, more and more students rush every year, and pledge classes are just getting bigger and more and more PNMs are dropping. (Over 1000 girls rushed in the fall, maybe 600-700 stayed around long enough to get bids, pledge classes were in the 60s.) There are currently 11 sororities: 8 that have no problem making quota/having successful formal recruitment, 1 that has been around just as long as the other 8 but has a hard time during formal recruitment, 1 that went from being a local around the 2003 mark into a chapter of SDT that chooses to not participate in formal recruitment, and ADChi a Christian-values oriented sorority.

I personally am already involved in a professional fraternity, but I believe that the bonds of sisterhood are something that cannot be replaced by any other kind of organization. Of course, by reading my past posts, you can see that I have gone through formal recruitment but didn't receive a bid to a house I'd be comfortable in. I wouldn't even consider starting a local sorority (that would perhaps become a Chi Omega, or Sigma Kappa, or Kappa Delta, or another chapter that at one time was at USC but isn't active currently) if I didn't see how crazy the numbers are concerning recruitment. Also, considering a local chapter recently became a NPC sorority, there perhaps is a chance for success.

So what do you think? Is it too soon for another local to be established, while one FR chapter is struggling and two others are relatively new? Would this sorority have to bring something new to the table, or would being a local instead of a national already be that "something new"?

Another note: I really like what Kappa Delta in particular stands for. With four national philanthropies and especially their work with Dove Campaign for Real Beauty (perhaps what USC needs), I feel like their national focus on helping out the community brings a lot to the table without being strictly a community service fraternity. Also, yes I'm nerding out but I like their symbols. There used to be a chapter at USC as well, at least according to Wikipedia that says Joan Lowery Nixon was a Theta Sigma...but she graduated in 1947...There are a few chapters in California, such as at UCLA, but I don't know if their alumni presence is as strong as, say, Pi Beta Phi or Kappa Alpha Theta in California. I could be wrong!

I feel like, as great as our Greek system is and how well-rounded our members are, most chapters do not really fit closely to their national mottos and creeds to better themselves academically, philanthropically, but only socially. I would want to form a local sorority that focuses most strongly on I suppose the more "serious" side of what being a sorority member means. I'm not saying it would be all work and no play, but I mean philanthropies wouldn't just be about getting drunk in the middle of the day on campus. I mean girls attracted to this kind of sorority wouldn't feel like they're doing the community a favor by waking up at 9am on Saturday for a beach cleanup. I mean if your motto is "Let us strive for that which is honorable, beautiful and highest," you follow it and don't just paint it somewhere in your house to pass by while you get ready to prance down the Row in a micromini.

I guess I'm thinking about all of this during the recent backlash our community's gotten. And it made me think, getting in trouble for all these things won't change anything except put bad behavior underground. For the most part, fraternities are about getting hazed until they become active members, at which point they'll have a house that won't deny them entry to Thursday night parties. Sororities are about getting the hottest members to "best represent" themselves, and sending their most attractive members to the "best" frats, and spending the most time and effort on only a few "top" fraternity philanthropies. And then requiring a couple hours community service. That's just the environment the Row is in right now...of course, I feel like individually Greek students don't act this way but somehow when the entire system comes together that's what's happened. Our president put the Greek system on probation, and that's not going to have current members question their behaviors and the status quo. They're just mad they can't party.

That's not what the GC community is about. That's not what being an alumni, being a member for life, is about. I feel like our school's Greek system in general has deviated too far from what each national organization stands for, and I'd like to return to those roots. Am I SOL?

QFP.

What do I think? I think that your timing is horrible and yes, you're SOL on many levels.

ETA: you were offered a bid when you went through recruitment Fall 2010, so you had the opportunity to make the changes in the system that you think are necessary. To me, your motives continue to be questionable.

[SC2013]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Okay, first of all, you are saying a lot of nasty things about chapters you once wanted to join, so you sound like sour grapes. Cut that out.

Oh no! I really don't mean to. I really love the idea of sisterhood and what these chapters stand for, I feel like in practice it's fallen a little flat. If I had joined any of these chapters--and I would have no qualms--I would try to change this internally as well.

It's difficult to convey what I see on campus to anyone not here at the same place, same time. The Row has gotten really rowdy. The USC email is just a culmination of our environment, for the whole world to finally see. The only reason the email went viral is because people thought it was funny, not because it was untrue. It just makes me sad to see that what Greek organizations aim to be hasn't really stuck here...

[DTD Alum]

First of all, as an SC alumnus, the row is actually quite tame compared to what it used to be. I am far enough out of college to let you know that way before you got there, the row was much rowdier and with much bigger scandals. If anything, the row will continue to get tamer under Nikias.

Second, you just spelled out the problem with numbers yourself. Out of 10 sororities that could conceivably participate in formal rush (ADChi doesn't count), two cannot make quota year after year. Somebody in a Panhellenic GLO feel free to chime in, but it's my understanding that this is not the type of system that PHC would feel is ready for expansion. I think they usually wait until everybody is making quota, or close to it. But you have one house who usually only makes half of quota (usually people don't show up to bid day even if they technically do make quota), and one that was struggling financially to the point where they had to withdraw from formal rush.

Plus, the vast majority of women who don't receive bids drop out not because there is not a place for them, but because they were focused on a small handful of sororities and didn't get them and therefore decided to be GDI. I guarantee you that if they will not pledge the two houses that are struggling (and many will not even pledge "middle tier" houses), they are not jumping on board with a local colony. I'm sorry, it's just not going to happen. Not to mention, even if a national wanted to colonize your local, where is the room on the row? It's my understanding that several fraternity chapters (including at least one very established one) are SOL in terms of housing options because a chapter cannot function off the row, and there is simply no land. To complicate things further, you should maybe look into WHY the local that was previously here was founded. Before they colonized into a national, they served a very specific niche market that would be able to draw some PNMs away from the national GLOs. Unless your local could find another equally desirable niche market, I don't think they are comparable situations.

Sorority pledge classes are too big, but that's nothing new, this problem has been around for a bit. The 60s is really nothing out of the normal for USC.

For the boys, Kappa Sigma scandals are bad press, but you should have seen some of the scandals that have happened in the past. There are a couple in particular that happened over the past 10-15 years that make this look like nothing. Not to mention that the fraternity rankings are so liquid it would shock you. If I told you what the top houses were less than 10 years ago you probably wouldn't believe me, because half of it does not line up to what is apparently the case today. Fraternities are always rising, getting kicked off, falling, colonizing, etc.

You are 2013, so I'm guessing you are currently a sophomore. I think your best bet to go Greek is rushing next year, but you'll be a junior. Sophomores have a relatively easy time at rush, but juniors get massively cut. Every sorority takes a small handful (usually just the two that are considered free), but the two chapters that usually do not make quota are much more welcome to taking more than two juniors. So you can probably still get a bid, but your options are going to be much more limited than they may have been in the past. But frankly I would not hold my breath for another option (ie a colony or a local) to appear in the two years you have left. It's just not a plausible situation. Go through rush (or COB) next year, but be realistic about your options.

Sorry to say all this because I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's important to internalize because next fall will be your last chance to go Greek at USC, and even then it's pushing it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

one that was struggling financially to the point where they had to withdraw from formal rush.

Are you talking about SDT or another NPC group? I thought SDT was fairly new and never intended to participate in formal rush.

OP - many many many chapters are founded with the idea of "we are going to bring something new/different/more morally upright/more whatever oriented to Greek life." If you insist on being apart from something you simultaneously want to be a part of, it doesn't work very well. Either you content yourself with a much smaller niche membership and are never truly accepted as legitimate by the rest of the community, or you eventually become what you railed against to begin with, or you refuse to waver in the least from your initial purpose and try to compete with the rest of the groups and die out. (Note: this mainly applies to sororities.)

I'm not speaking for KD, but I very much doubt they would want to come to a campus like USC and be labeled "the sorority that isn't like the other sororities."

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by SC2013

Oh no! I really don't mean to. I really love the idea of sisterhood and what these chapters stand for, I feel like in practice it's fallen a little flat. If I had joined any of these chapters--and I would have no qualms--I would try to change this internally as well.

It's difficult to convey what I see on campus to anyone not here at the same place, same time. The Row has gotten really rowdy. The USC email is just a culmination of our environment, for the whole world to finally see. The only reason the email went viral is because people thought it was funny, not because it was untrue. It just makes me sad to see that what Greek organizations aim to be hasn't really stuck here...

How does one know what Greek organizations "aim to be" and how they are or aren't fulfilling that when one is not a member?

How does one intend to start a sorority and gain support for it on the grounds of basically saying "all the other groups have NO VALUES?"

Good luck with that.

[SC2013]

Originally Posted by DTD Alum

First of all, as an SC alumnus, the row is actually quite tame compared to what it used to be. I am far enough out of college to let you know that way before you got there, the row was much rowdier and with much bigger scandals. If anything, the row will continue to get tamer under Nikias.

Second, you just spelled out the problem with numbers yourself. Out of 10 sororities that could conceivably participate in formal rush (ADChi doesn't count), two cannot make quota year after year. Somebody in a Panhellenic GLO feel free to chime in, but it's my understanding that this is not the type of system that PHC would feel is ready for expansion. I think they usually wait until everybody is making quota, or close to it. But you have one house who usually only makes half of quota (usually people don't show up to bid day even if they technically do make quota), and one that was struggling financially to the point where they had to withdraw from formal rush.

Plus, the vast majority of women who don't receive bids drop out not because there is not a place for them, but because they were focused on a small handful of sororities and didn't get them and therefore decided to be GDI. I guarantee you that if they will not pledge the two houses that are struggling (and many will not even pledge "middle tier" houses), they are not jumping on board with a local colony. I'm sorry, it's just not going to happen. Not to mention, even if a national wanted to colonize your local, where is the room on the row? It's my understanding that several fraternity chapters (including at least one very established one) are SOL in terms of housing options because a chapter cannot function off the row, and there is simply no land. To complicate things further, you should maybe look into WHY the local that was previously here was founded. Before they colonized into a national, they served a very specific niche market that would be able to draw some PNMs away from the national GLOs. Unless your local could find another equally desirable niche market, I don't think they are comparable situations.

Sorority pledge classes are too big, but that's nothing new, this problem has been around for a bit. The 60s is really nothing out of the normal for USC.

For the boys, Kappa Sigma scandals are bad press, but you should have seen some of the scandals that have happened in the past. There are a couple in particular that happened over the past 10-15 years that make this look like nothing. Not to mention that the fraternity rankings are so liquid it would shock you. If I told you what the top houses were less than 10 years ago you probably wouldn't believe me, because half of it does not line up to what is apparently the case today. Fraternities are always rising, getting kicked off, falling, colonizing, etc.

You are 2013, so I'm guessing you are currently a sophomore. I think your best bet to go Greek is rushing next year, but you'll be a junior. Sophomores have a relatively easy time at rush, but juniors get massively cut. Every sorority takes a small handful (usually just the two that are considered free), but the two chapters that usually do not make quota are much more welcome to taking more than two juniors. So you can probably still get a bid, but your options are going to be much more limited than they may have been in the past. But frankly I would not hold my breath for another option (ie a colony or a local) to appear in the two years you have left. It's just not a plausible situation. Go through rush (or COB) next year, but be realistic about your options.

Sorry to say all this because I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's important to internalize because next fall will be your last chance to go Greek at USC, and even then it's pushing it.

Don't be sorry; I reached out to the GC community in hopes of getting insightful information such as what you've just told me.

I really wasn't sure if it was possible, especially in such a firmly established Greek system at USC and now of course I'm even more unsure. I suppose my best bet would be to continue doing what I do with my professional fraternity, and work with philanthropic organizations on my own...it's just a bummer is all. I might also be a little too idealistic to what a GLO at USC could be, and that's really just my fault.

Only thing I can say that would give this local sorority an infinitesimal chance is that two of our sororities have religious histories. Perhaps one that focused more heavily on service and grades could attract some...but as you said (and I agree)...doubtful.

[SC2013]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

How does one know what Greek organizations "aim to be" and how they are or aren't fulfilling that when one is not a member?

How does one intend to start a sorority and gain support for it on the grounds of basically saying "all the other groups have NO VALUES?"

Good luck with that.

I may be presuming too much, but most Greek organizations' mission statements, mottos, creeds, etc. all stand for very noble endeavors, seeking to improve not only themselves and their brotherhoods/sisterhoods but the community and academic environment. That's what I was assuming, and I've noticed a steadying dichotomy between the face houses put on when parents and nationals are around, and when left to their own devices.

We as a culture--youth culture, USC culture, Southern California culture, Greek culture--have started to value, or rather place too much value, upon the more superficial aspects of Greek culture that nationwide have negatively stereotyped GLOs. The social aspects of the Greek system are certainly strong, valuable, and beneficial to all. However, other aspects have fallen to the back burner.

I love USC and this has given our university specifically a terrible and largely unsubstantiated reputation. I'm thinking of ways in which we could reverse this, and if it took a local sorority that refocused on the founding principles of sisterhood to try and turn this ship around...

Maybe I'm just being outdated. But my sister just received a copy of her sorority's magazine in the mail and I was reading through it, and many of the facets that nationally the sorority is proud of and supports are not satisfactorily represented on a regular basis in my opinion. Furthermore, the founding members' goals and beliefs on how the sorority's members should act and behave are only present when adults come around.

These founders' ideals and mission statements are what attracted me to the Greek system. I still believe in the importance of the bond of GLOs but perhaps I was just too idealistic in believing that the symbols of these GLOs go beyond surface level?

[ellebud]

As an alum of USC (with one daughter currently attending in a house), another who graduated I'll add my two cents: SDT is new. They have a different target audience, (not the Jewish aspect btw as they are diverse) but a strong sisterhood There is a Christian sorority which is again, different. I believe that the only house of the big ten that doesn't make quota is the aforementioned AChiO. And that is an absolute shame. There are so many pnms who refuse to accept their bid there because it isn't...............(fill in the blank). So now you want to add another house to the mix?

I'm so sorry that you didn't choose to accept your bid. You could have made a difference. They wanted you. I understand that in a new sorority you would have the control, but that's not happening. Cost, numbers are just the beginning of your challenges.

Neither I nor my daughter is affiliated with AChiO. My daughter's house had some interactions with this house. The Reluctant One is, I guess in current speak, cool/hot whatever. She has good instincts. SDT and AChiO have really nice girls. If you crave sisterhood, give them a chance. Take a chance and go through recruitment next year. But unless you have unbelievable connections and support, several million dollars to purchase/renovate a house support the houses that are there.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by SC2013

I may be presuming too much, but most Greek organizations' mission statements, mottos, creeds, etc. all stand for very noble endeavors, seeking to improve not only themselves and their brotherhoods/sisterhoods but the community and academic environment. That's what I was assuming, and I've noticed a steadying dichotomy between the face houses put on when parents and nationals are around, and when left to their own devices.

We as a culture--youth culture, USC culture, Southern California culture, Greek culture--have started to value, or rather place too much value, upon the more superficial aspects of Greek culture that nationwide have negatively stereotyped GLOs. The social aspects of the Greek system are certainly strong, valuable, and beneficial to all. However, other aspects have fallen to the back burner.

I love USC and this has given our university specifically a terrible and largely unsubstantiated reputation. I'm thinking of ways in which we could reverse this, and if it took a local sorority that refocused on the founding principles of sisterhood to try and turn this ship around...

Maybe I'm just being outdated. But my sister just received a copy of her sorority's magazine in the mail and I was reading through it, and many of the facets that nationally the sorority is proud of and supports are not satisfactorily represented on a regular basis in my opinion. Furthermore, the founding members' goals and beliefs on how the sorority's members should act and behave are only present when adults come around.

These founders' ideals and mission statements are what attracted me to the Greek system. I still believe in the importance of the bond of GLOs but perhaps I was just too idealistic in believing that the symbols of these GLOs go beyond surface level?

You didn't really answer my question. How do you know? You know all of this about sororities from reading your sister's sorority magazine?

If you were to start a local, you wouldn't get far with the attitude that the existing groups are somehow "not measuring up" to their values (that you don't know about because you aren't actually in them.)

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

You didn't really answer my question. How do you know? You know all of this about sororities from reading your sister's sorority magazine?

If you were to start a local, you wouldn't get far with the attitude that the existing groups are somehow "not measuring up" to their values (that you don't know about because you aren't actually in them.)

Geez because she sees all the drinking and sex and KNOWS that those people are not, in their non partying times, living up to the standards that she KNOWS are there. Duh.

[SC2013]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

You didn't really answer my question. How do you know? You know all of this about sororities from reading your sister's sorority magazine?

If you were to start a local, you wouldn't get far with the attitude that the existing groups are somehow "not measuring up" to their values (that you don't know about because you aren't actually in them.)

Founding principles and histories are readily available online, I can't pretend to know what is revealed during initiation, during chapter meetings, etc. but I'm assuming that the literature that is publicly available, not just from magazines, but from literature written by founding members (Google Books is awesome), from national organization websites, etc. still stands true. Like I said though, I could be presuming but my assumption is that the information given once being a member would delve further into what is publicly available, not deviate completely.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by SC2013

Founding principles and histories are readily available online, I can't pretend to know what is revealed during initiation, during chapter meetings, etc. but I'm assuming that the literature that is publicly available, not just from magazines, but from literature written by founding members (Google Books is awesome), from national organization websites, etc. still stands true. Like I said though, I could be presuming but my assumption is that the information given once being a member would delve further into what is publicly available, not deviate completely.

How on Earth does one know that EVERY SINGLE GLO at USC is not "measuring up" and that EVERY SINGLE SORORITY MEMBER ON on the Row is not deeply invested in those values?

Because they party?

I mean, WTF?

You really think that you are going to start a local, and women are going to want to join solely on the strength of you saying "heyyy PNMs, everyone else is not living up to their values!!!!! See, they're partying and junk!!!!"

Come on.

I mean, really.

[SC2013]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Geez because she sees all the drinking and sex and KNOWS that those people are not, in their non partying times, living up to the standards that she KNOWS are there. Duh.

Well I live with 2 sorority girls. I know that they don't just drink and have sex all the time, but thank you for generalizing my concerns into black and white.

One is very involved in student government, volunteers, is double majoring, and was strongly considering dropping her sorority because it didn't enable her the time to have these extracurriculars, and she doesn't spend too much time at the house generally. She eventually decided to stay in the sorority because she decided that whenever she did have free time she'd have a group of girls to go out to the Row with. She and my other roommate both agree that their organizations rely mostly on social activities. I mean, that's what makes them successful and I understand how that is. My other roommate sees the philanthropic requirements as a nuisance, as do many of my friends in GLOs. It's not like since I'm not in a GLO I'm completely unaware of GLO members' mentality. Many girls are very involved in service work, many girls are very driven in their studies; that's a given. However, that seems to come in conflict with their involvement in their sorority rather than enhance their experience. What I'm saying is, it shouldn't be that way.

And hopefully that wouldn't take a new colony, and instead being on probation to have members reexamine the meaning of being Greek. So far it doesn't seem to have that effect, however. I personally see USC's Greek community as what should be the future leaders of a student body already comprised of incredibly involved, talented, well-rounded, intelligent people. And the Greek community already contributes a great deal; I just feel like it's missing the mark in other instances too.