Career & Grad School Advice (Law Related)

[bigquestions]

Hello GCers!

I am a long-time poster here on GC but I’m also paranoid about my employer or my significant other’s employer seeing this and figuring out who I am from other posts, so I created a new username to post this.

My SO and I have some big decisions to make and we’re really torn, so naturally I’m asking advice of strangers on the internet! (Disclaimer: I’m talking to my friends and family quite a bit about this as well, but I would also appreciate any outside, objective insight!) We are not married but have been together for a long time and will be getting married after he completes law school.

About a year ago we moved to a new city for his law school. It’s a good law school and locally very well-respected, but it’s 2nd tier per US News and World. The main reasons for choosing it were a good scholarship and the location, since it’s a city he loves and hoped I would love too.

He has an undergraduate degree from a top-ranked ranked undergraduate engineering program and plans to go into IP or patent law. He achieved very good grades his first year in law school and is in the top 1% of his class, was invited to law review and moot court, and has a 1L summer associateship with a very good (V10) firm in our city. He has loved the associateship and could see himself with this firm long-term, and based on the feedback he has gotten they will probably invite him back for his 2L summer. Because of his high class rank he has been offered a full tuition scholarship. I’m very proud of him.

I have found a job in the city that is related to what I would like to do long-term, but isn’t really ideal. It’s a lower-level job than I could have gotten had geography not been an issue, but I made the decision that it was worth it to stay in the same city and I was initially very gung-ho about moving here. I’ve worked in this job for nearly a year now and really do not enjoy it as it stands now. My boss has been fantastic and is open to letting me develop new projects, but I’m just not challenged by the work and I’m overqualified for what I’m doing. I do have a promotion in the works, which would give me more responsibility, but it’s hard to tell at this point how much it will improve my job satisfaction.

One great thing about my job I that I have been accepted to a graduate program in my field and my employer will pay most of the tuition since it would directly benefit the company. The grad program is at the same school my significant other attends for law school, and the program is considered good locally. It’s a good opportunity for me, but to be honest I’m not that attached to the idea. If I could find the right job I would rather work for a few years and then go back to school, especially since I’m early in my career and I’m worried that I’ll spend two years in school only to figure out that I want a different career.

The only coworker I would call a friend recently quit and I have not really made any other friends in this city, despite my best efforts (I’ve joined My GLO’s alumni association and I volunteer at a few different organizations). Unfortunately the industry I want to work in just isn’t very strong in this city and there are likely to be somewhat limited opportunities for me to get the type of job I want here.

Another consideration is that we are fortunate enough to have a rent-free place to live here (we pay all other expenses like furniture, utilities, etc.).

So, here’s the real meat of the question. Because of SO’s high class rank and accomplishments, he has the opportunity to transfer to some much more highly ranked law schools (top 14 in US News) in other cities. From what I have been told, the rankings matter a great deal for job prospects in “Big Law”, and even if he ends up with the firm he’s currently a summer associate for, it could affect his partner prospects and salary down the line. He has also considered going in-house or going into academia later, and it could matter for those (particularly the latter).

The biggest advantage transferring would give him is geographic flexibility. As I mentioned, his current law school is not well-known outside this area, and moving will likely be important to us later since I’m just don’t like this city for a number of reasons (including lack of friends and social support, since all my friends and family are several hours away by plane, and the fact that my career opportunities will not be as great here).

So we have two options, and unfortunately not a great deal of time to choose between them.

1. We could stay here, which would be much cheaper (free law school tuition for him, deeply discounted grad school tuition for me, rent-free place to live). However, we would be bound to this city for at least 10 years, possibly forever, and it would be bad for my career (and possibly detrimental for his long-term). But there is something to be said for putting down some more roots and continuing to try to settle here.

2. We could leave, which would be really expensive and a pain in the butt in the short-term (moving is expensive, he would be paying sticker price for his last two years of school, I wouldn’t go to grad school right now and I would need to look for a new job) but would be a good investment in both of our future careers. Provided he gets the sort of big law job he’s on track to get, the loans can be paid back (he would be making ~160K/yr), though it would mean a few more years of “rice and beans” living, which I don’t mind. Money isn’t very important to me but quality of life is.

Both of us vacillate. One day we think we’re crazy to leave this situation, uproot ourselves and spend a ridiculous amount of money over several years; and other days we think we’re crazy to pass up an opportunity that will never be available again. I worry that he will wake up in 15 years and regret taking the path of least resistance because it has limited what he can do with his career. He worries about the fact that I’ve tried to make this city work for a year now and I’m still so unhappy, and that my career prospects just aren’t great here.

If you’re still reading this… what do you think? Should we stay or should we go? And if any of you are lawyers, do you think what we’ve been told regarding his career is valid? I know we’re incredibly lucky to have these “problems” and that either way we will be OK, but it’s such a big decision and we just don’t know what to do.

Thank you for any feedback!

[Kevin]

Why is it not an option that he goes off to the Tier 1 school, which in any event, he probably should, and you move to wherever you want to move? It's only two years, and he isn't going to be worth too much being a law student.

If you are definitely staying physically together, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to graduate from a Tier 1 law school. These next 2 years are going to dictate how the rest of your married life with this guy is going to unfold, and the Tier 1 option probably has a lot of upside.

[bigquestions]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why is it not an option that he goes off to the Tier 1 school, which in any event, he probably should, and you move to wherever you want to move? It's only two years, and he isn't going to be worth too much being a law student.

Thanks for your response, Kevin! This option is not off the table. We would really prefer to stay in the same place since we've been living together for years, but I'm currently applying to a number of opportunities in other cities and if I get a really good one I would go.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by bigquestions

Hello GCers!

I am a long-time poster here on GC but I’m also paranoid about my employer or my significant other’s employer seeing this and figuring out who I am from other posts, so I created a new username to post this.

LOL. Womp womp.

Originally Posted by bigquestions

My SO and I have some big decisions to make and we’re really torn, so naturally I’m asking advice of strangers on the internet! (Disclaimer: I’m talking to my friends and family quite a bit about this as well, but I would also appreciate any outside, objective insight!) We are not married but have been together for a long time and will be getting married after he completes law school.

About a year ago we moved to a new city for his law school. It’s a good law school and locally very well-respected, but it’s 2nd tier per US News and World. The main reasons for choosing it were a good scholarship and the location, since it’s a city he loves and hoped I would love too.

He has an undergraduate degree from a top-ranked ranked undergraduate engineering program and plans to go into IP or patent law. He achieved very good grades his first year in law school and is in the top 1% of his class, was invited to law review and moot court, and has a 1L summer associateship with a very good (V10) firm in our city. He has loved the associateship and could see himself with this firm long-term, and based on the feedback he has gotten they will probably invite him back for his 2L summer. Because of his high class rank he has been offered a full tuition scholarship. I’m very proud of him.

I have found a job in the city that is related to what I would like to do long-term, but isn’t really ideal. It’s a lower-level job than I could have gotten had geography not been an issue, but I made the decision that it was worth it to stay in the same city and I was initially very gung-ho about moving here. I’ve worked in this job for nearly a year now and really do not enjoy it as it stands now. My boss has been fantastic and is open to letting me develop new projects, but I’m just not challenged by the work and I’m overqualified for what I’m doing. I do have a promotion in the works, which would give me more responsibility, but it’s hard to tell at this point how much it will improve my job satisfaction.

One great thing about my job I that I have been accepted to a graduate program in my field and my employer will pay most of the tuition since it would directly benefit the company. The grad program is at the same school my significant other attends for law school, and the program is considered good locally. It’s a good opportunity for me, but to be honest I’m not that attached to the idea. If I could find the right job I would rather work for a few years and then go back to school, especially since I’m early in my career and I’m worried that I’ll spend two years in school only to figure out that I want a different career.

The only coworker I would call a friend recently quit and I have not really made any other friends in this city, despite my best efforts (I’ve joined My GLO’s alumni association and I volunteer at a few different organizations). Unfortunately the industry I want to work in just isn’t very strong in this city and there are likely to be somewhat limited opportunities for me to get the type of job I want here.

Another consideration is that we are fortunate enough to have a rent-free place to live here (we pay all other expenses like furniture, utilities, etc.).

So, here’s the real meat of the question. Because of SO’s high class rank and accomplishments, he has the opportunity to transfer to some much more highly ranked law schools (top 14 in US News) in other cities. From what I have been told, the rankings matter a great deal for job prospects in “Big Law”, and even if he ends up with the firm he’s currently a summer associate for, it could affect his partner prospects and salary down the line. He has also considered going in-house or going into academia later, and it could matter for those (particularly the latter).

The biggest advantage transferring would give him is geographic flexibility. As I mentioned, his current law school is not well-known outside this area, and moving will likely be important to us later since I’m just don’t like this city for a number of reasons (including lack of friends and social support, since all my friends and family are several hours away by plane, and the fact that my career opportunities will not be as great here).

So we have two options, and unfortunately not a great deal of time to choose between them.

1. We could stay here, which would be much cheaper (free law school tuition for him, deeply discounted grad school tuition for me, rent-free place to live). However, we would be bound to this city for at least 10 years, possibly forever, and it would be bad for my career (and possibly detrimental for his long-term). But there is something to be said for putting down some more roots and continuing to try to settle here.

2. We could leave, which would be really expensive and a pain in the butt in the short-term (moving is expensive, he would be paying sticker price for his last two years of school, I wouldn’t go to grad school right now and I would need to look for a new job) but would be a good investment in both of our future careers. Provided he gets the sort of big law job he’s on track to get, the loans can be paid back (he would be making ~160K/yr), though it would mean a few more years of “rice and beans” living, which I don’t mind. Money isn’t very important to me but quality of life is.

Both of us vacillate. One day we think we’re crazy to leave this situation, uproot ourselves and spend a ridiculous amount of money over several years; and other days we think we’re crazy to pass up an opportunity that will never be available again. I worry that he will wake up in 15 years and regret taking the path of least resistance because it has limited what he can do with his career. He worries about the fact that I’ve tried to make this city work for a year now and I’m still so unhappy, and that my career prospects just aren’t great here.

If you’re still reading this… what do you think? Should we stay or should we go? And if any of you are lawyers, do you think what we’ve been told regarding his career is valid? I know we’re incredibly lucky to have these “problems” and that either way we will be OK, but it’s such a big decision and we just don’t know what to do.

Thank you for any feedback!

LOL @ bolded.

Good luck to you.

[katydidKD]

Free law school tuition to a T-14 school?! Do it. Didn't read carefully this whole post, but do it. The downside to the prestigious law schools is being in huge debt. That is an unheard of opportunity. Do it do it do it.

Edit: last two years sticker price. still say do it. T-14 is worth it.

[bigquestions]

Originally Posted by katydidKD

Free law school tuition to a T-14 school?! Do it. Didn't read carefully this whole post, but do it. The downside to the prestigious law schools is being in huge debt. That is an unheard of opportunity. Do it do it do it.

Edit: last two years sticker price. still say do it. T-14 is worth it.

Unfortunately, he's not at a T14. It's a Tier 2 (below top 50). If it was a T-14 I would agree with you though!

[bigquestions]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL @ bolded.

Yeah, I know, I'm bad at concise.

There are a lot of details...

[katydidKD]

Looks like you are thinking rationally. I'd say make a pro-con list and analyze but it looks like you have done that.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by Kevin

If you are definitely staying physically together, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to graduate from a Tier 1 law school. These next 2 years are going to dictate how the rest of your married life with this guy is going to unfold, and the Tier 1 option probably has a lot of upside.

^^^ This.

I know nothing about law school so all I can offer is the perspective of someone old and the Queen of Regrets. I'd strongly recommend leaving. Your current city isn't going to let either one of you reach your potential career-wise. Why settle? You're young and your life is full of promise. Putting down roots can wait. Trust me, you do not want to look back 15 or 20 years from now and wonder why, when you could have done anything, you let the opportunity pass you by. The only thing that seems to really be standing in your way is the cost of moving, a new place, and his law school. Yes, it adds up and it may not be easy for a while. But remember, a life lived without regrets is priceless.

Good luck!

[ADqtPiMel]

I speak from experience here -- my husband stayed at his lower-ranked (Tier 2) law school because he had a scholarship, rather than transferring to a Tier 1 school. Despite graduating in the top 10% of his class, law review, etc., he was unemployed for a full year after graduating and is about to be unemployed again (the judge he clerks for is retiring). His classmates are mostly in the same situation.

The answer is always, always, graduate from the best possible law school you can. We may have less debt, but the job prospects are limited.

[AnotherKD]

Originally Posted by ADqtPiMel

I speak from experience here -- my husband stayed at his lower-ranked (Tier 2) law school because he had a scholarship, rather than transferring to a Tier 1 school. Despite graduating in the top 10% of his class, law review, etc., he was unemployed for a full year after graduating and is about to be unemployed again (the judge he clerks for is retiring). His classmates are mostly in the same situation.

The answer is always, always, graduate from the best possible law school you can. We may have less debt, but the job prospects are limited.

YES @ bolded.

Especially now, with lots of people who have already graduated with law degrees from good schools with no opportunities in the field of law. No joke. I am not a lawyer, but about 90% of my friends in the area are, and we talk about things like this regularly.

Calling KDDani!

[psusue]

Though I know nothing about law school, I'd say go for the transfer. From the little I know of law school, the place you get your degree from matters. And even with cheap living now, if you can't get a good paying (and fulfilling) job in either of your fields later, what will be the point? I know it may seem crazy now with all the up front costs, but your partner and you seem to be meant for more than this. It's only been a year in this city, correct? Then you still have plenty of time to try other options. And if you're having trouble deciding- always ask yourself which you'll wonder about how it would have turned out. I think you know how your current situation would pan out. But what about the other one?

[33girl]

You don't seem jazzed at all about the city you're in, so why would you not want to leave it?

As far as the seemingly only reason to stay, free tuition...judging by the other responses on this thread, you get what you pay for.

[dekeguy]

Regarding the question of whether to transfer to the tier one school there is one important point that has so far been overlooked. What kind of law does your SO intend to practice. The area or areas of Law must be taken into consideration. Further, the 'where' is likewise important. In some sections of the country a strong regional or state law school could be seen as preferable to a top school like Harvard, Yale, NYU, Stanford, U of Chicago, etc. If most of the partners in regional firms graduated from Tulane, LSU, Mizzou, Arizona, Loyola-Chicago, etc one might be smart to carefully consider this. An 'Ivy' might be seen as great for the theory of the law but less so for nuts and bolts practice. On the other hand, if the SO wants a crack at a major national or international firm representing mega-clients then the top of the first tier is an important consideration. Does he want Corporate or Criminal? Private or Government practice? Sports law or Admiralty? (for admiralty I think Tulane is the top choice)* Anyway, I suggest that you target the end goal and be guided accordingly.


*My comment about Tulane is based on observation, not attendance. I went to law school in England.

[Munchkin03]

Go for the T-14 school. It makes a MAJOR difference, particularly in these days when the competition for law jobs is so intense. Yeah, there's debt. BUT, if you borrow wisely and live carefully for the first few years, you'll be amazed at how quickly you can pay it down.

Now, I'm not sure what type of graduate program you're considering or if it's a nationally regarded program, but if it's an important step for your career (as opposed to just a free degree to have one), then I might consider staying. Long distance sucks--I was in an LDR during much of college and my first year of graduate school. Luckily, my ex and I were able to see the long view and it ended up being fine.

Good luck!