RFM Question

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I can swear this was answered before, but I can't seem to find it. If a woman gets released from all chapters immediately before prefs, does the RFM specialist and/or GA attempt to flex the numbers at all to obtain an invitation for her?

For example, Suzie goes to four parties for second invitational and then receives no preference invites. Do they check to see if Suzie was on any of the flex lists for her four groups? And if she isn't, is there any horse trading with the advisers to try to find a spot for her?

The reason I ask is because, in this situation, Suzie has already made it through two rounds of invitations, and is probably just a victim of numbers, i.e. she probably meets the qualifications for membership and just got released because there were other PNM's the chapter wanted more.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

I can say that at my institution there were girls that were offered around if they were victims of numbers and usually there were chapters willing to take them back. They have made great sisters when we've accepted them. Have there been refusals by chapters as well? Yes. Have there been a handful of women pushed back on the chapters? Yes. But if you really stand firm they won't force it.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I can swear this was answered before, but I can't seem to find it. If a woman gets released from all chapters immediately before prefs, does the RFM specialist and/or GA attempt to flex the numbers at all to obtain an invitation for her?

For example, Suzie goes to four parties for second invitational and then receives no preference invites. Do they check to see if Suzie was on any of the flex lists for her four groups? And if she isn't, is there any horse trading with the advisers to try to find a spot for her?

The reason I ask is because, in this situation, Suzie has already made it through two rounds of invitations, and is probably just a victim of numbers, i.e. she probably meets the qualifications for membership and just got released because there were other PNM's the chapter wanted more.

Oh Ack. << Error Code 100: Too many variables>>

We can't really say for sure without knowing the school or the specific situation. Many places the GA might be able to do this but might not want to? It could lead to some unhappiness at the chapter if someone gets put back on the list for prefs that was off the list previously.

She may actually be better off making sure that people know she is eligible for a snap bid or COB. She may actually have more choices then.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

I can say that at my institution there were girls that were offered around if they were victims of numbers and usually there were chapters willing to take them back. They have made great sisters when we've accepted them. Have there been refusals by chapters as well? Yes. Have there been a handful of women pushed back on the chapters? Yes. But if you really stand firm they won't force it.

Right, and I think that "forcing" is a bad thing.

I was just wondering if (hoping that) there is a mechanism in place to say "Suzie PNM didn't get any invites; we'll let you go over your suggested invite number to take her", much the same way that women getting placed as QA's are usually well liked and just got screwed by numbers.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by HQWest

Oh Ack. << Error Code 100: Too many variables>>

We can't really say for sure without knowing the school or the specific situation. Many places the GA might be able to do this but might not want to? It could lead to some unhappiness at the chapter if someone gets put back on the list for prefs that was off the list previously.

She may actually be better off making sure that people know she is eligible for a snap bid or COB. She may actually have more choices then.

NO NO NO, I don't mean the GA putting someone back on the list unilaterally. I mean the GA calling the chapter and saying "you can go over the RFM number if you take Suzie" and the chapter says "cool" and gets put back on the list and everyone is happy.

[Titchou]

If she's on the flex list and they have room in their parties for that day, then she would be slotted with them. Otherwise, no. If the GA had the time and inclination, she might call and ask. Otherwise, she'd go in the pot for a snap bid or COR.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

NO NO NO, I don't mean the GA putting someone back on the list unilaterally. I mean the GA calling the chapter and saying "you can go over the RFM number if you take Suzie" and the chapter says "cool" and gets put back on the list and everyone is happy.

This sounds like a great idea to me.

If you can answer this generally please do: are there flex lists for prefs most places that use RFM or do chapters get a hard number to send as the bid list for prefs?

If they are using flex lists, it could be set up to be almost automatic without even having to ask the chapter, couldn't it?

Would this end up increasing her chances exponentially to be QA for that chapter though? She'd be far enough beyond what the group usually took to reach quota as to not be within the invite cutoff. She might not have any other pref groups, unless each chapter was offered the same opportunity to add her and she was on multiple flex lists.

[Titchou]

To the best of my knowledge,all invitation lists (skit, pref, whatever) are to also have flex lists. And they don't call on it , they just use it if situation calls for it. The bid list itself is one as you have your first list and then the ranking of all the rest.

So the only way a PNM is totally dropped is if she is not on any list or she is so far down the lists that no group gets to her before they top out...though that second one is not very probable.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Titchou

To the best of my knowledge,all invitation lists (skit, pref, whatever) are to also have flex lists. And they don't call on it , they just use it if situation calls for it. The bid list itself is one as you have your first list and then the ranking of all the rest.

So the only way a PNM is totally dropped is if she is not on any list or she is so far down the lists that no group gets to her before they top out...though that second one is not very probable.

But don't you think DBB's idea is a great one? To go ahead and double check for the PNMS, if any, who do happen to get dropped by all groups and released from recruitment, even if they were listed on bid lists/flex lists but at chapters where RFM required them to be released rather than invited?

It's because it probably isn't common that it might be worth looking at.

[Titchou]

At some campuses you could. But look at it this way. If all the groups drop her after the first round, there's an issue with her. If it's right before pref, she might be OK but how many GAs have the time to do this? Maybe - and it's a big maybe - at a smaller school but I can't see it happening at Alabama or UGA or Auburn or Arkansas, etc.

[AGDee]

It seems like you could be setting up the young woman to end up bidless anyway if you did this right before Pref.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Titchou

At some campuses you could. But look at it this way. If all the groups drop her after the first round, there's an issue with her. If it's right before pref, she might be OK but how many GAs have the time to do this? Maybe - and it's a big maybe - at a smaller school but I can't see it happening at Alabama or UGA or Auburn or Arkansas, etc.

But I think we're only talking about girls who get dropped completely right before pref, by groups that might actually want to have them but have to release because of RFM.

I may be wrong, but a drop for an issue, isn't going to be on a flex list for pref.

And I think we're talking about a really small number of PNMs.

A girl who made it to third round with highly selective chapters and who doesn't quite make the cut for prefs on numbers is probably still likely to be a really good member.

[Titchou]

If she makes it to third round with the "highly selective groups" she's still going to be on the other groups lists. She shouldn't have to worry.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by Titchou

At some campuses you could. But look at it this way. If all the groups drop her after the first round, there's an issue with her. If it's right before pref, she might be OK but how many GAs have the time to do this? Maybe - and it's a big maybe - at a smaller school but I can't see it happening at Alabama or UGA or Auburn or Arkansas, etc.

If this happened at prefs - and the GA makes such calls, she might only get one choice. She would have to take whatever the GA comes up with. If she waits for COB she might have 3 or 4 chapters to choose from or have a better chance to evaluate where her friends end up?

[Titchou]

This too...but I really think that anyone who makes it to the last round before pref is going to have an option...it just may not be her preferred option.