Black Greek 101 stating that AΦA didn't come first

elusiveflip · #1 05-21-2008, 11:38 PM

Can Alpha men who have read Black Greek 101 clarify the material in this book, which was in fact written by one of your own? In it Walter Kimbrough states that both "Alpha Kappa Nu" at Indiana university and more importantly "Gamma Phi" at Wilberforce University were two African American collegiate fraternities that were founded in 1903 and 1905 respectively. Alpha Kappa Nu he writess didn't last beyond a couple of years, but that are records of Gamma Phi dated up until the 1940's.

Im curious to hear an Alphas thoughts on the subject.

Senusret I · #2 05-22-2008, 07:18 AM

Why would you need us to "clarify" things?

Gamma Phi and Alpha Kappa Nu FAILED as intercollegiate fraternities.

Alpha Phi Alpha is the first successful intercollegiate fraternity founded for and by African Americans.

Black Greek 101 is clear about this. Stop trying to start drama with your first post.

elusiveflip · #3 05-22-2008, 01:00 PM

My question wasn't intended to start drama, seeing as there was no inflammatory language in my post. So the discussion need not be derailed by petty insults or what-have-you. We're adults here. But if I had the book nearby I would quote the excerpt Im thinking of.

By "clarify", I mean that by simple logic, whether the venture failed or not, both still came before 1906. One could easily deduce that before Gamma Phi went under, Alpha couldn't lay claim to firsthood.

So what I want to know is what are the aspects of "First of all" aside from success that AphiA lays claim to? Were either of the other two organizations founded by white people? Were they both confined to 1 university? Is it because you're the oldest recognized by the NPHC? I want the logic behind the slogans.

Senusret I · #4 05-22-2008, 01:04 PM

Ask the author.

ETA: Who are you? Do you aspire to be an Alpha?

DSTCHAOS · #5 05-22-2008, 01:29 PM

Black Greek 101 provides so much detail regarding this that there should be no need for clarity. Paricularly pay attention to page 30 as it explains the difference between the success of Gamma Phi and that of Alpha Kappa Nu, which are both extinct.

Then the next section of that chapter is entitled "the founding of the major Black Greek Lettered Organizations 1905-1930" for a reason. It begins by discussing the difference in membership-type between the college-graduate Sigma Pi Phi Fraternity and the later founded collegiate and intercollegiate Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity (and the BGLOs founded thereafter).

Professor · #6 05-22-2008, 01:31 PM

No Comment . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by elusiveflip

My question wasn't intended to start drama, seeing as there was no inflammatory language in my post. So the discussion need not be derailed by petty insults or what-have-you. We're adults here. But if I had the book nearby I would quote the excerpt Im thinking of.

By "clarify", I mean that by simple logic, whether the venture failed or not, both still came before 1906. One could easily deduce that before Gamma Phi went under, Alpha couldn't lay claim to firsthood.

So what I want to know is what are the aspects of "First of all" aside from success that AphiA lays claim to? Were either of the other two organizations founded by white people? Were they both confined to 1 university? Is it because you're the oldest recognized by the NPHC? I want the logic behind the slogans.

Phrozen1ne · #7 05-22-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Why would you need us to "clarify" things?

Gamma Phi and Alpha Kappa Nu FAILED as intercollegiate fraternities.

Alpha Phi Alpha is the first successful intercollegiate fraternity founded for and by African Americans.

Black Greek 101 is clear about this. Stop trying to start drama with your first post.

I think this needed to be put in bold too.

Wolfman · #8 05-23-2008, 12:59 AM

I think it would be proper to say that A Phi A was the first national BGLO founded. There were other locals that came and went, whose lifespan was a couple of years.

ladygreek · #9 05-23-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elusiveflip

My question wasn't intended to start drama, seeing as there was no inflammatory language in my post. So the discussion need not be derailed by petty insults or what-have-you. We're adults here. But if I had the book nearby I would quote the excerpt Im thinking of.

By "clarify", I mean that by simple logic, whether the venture failed or not, both still came before 1906. One could easily deduce that before Gamma Phi went under, Alpha couldn't lay claim to firsthood.

So what I want to know is what are the aspects of "First of all" aside from success that AphiA lays claim to? Were either of the other two organizations founded by white people? Were they both confined to 1 university? Is it because you're the oldest recognized by the NPHC? I want the logic behind the slogans.

You are reading way too much into this. And First of All can simply mean the First of All that currently exists.

Are you thinking about reactivating Gamma Phi or Alpha Kappa Nu?

elusiveflip · #10 05-27-2008, 01:02 PM

Ok, I have the book back in my hands. So Im going to quote exactly what this Alpha has written. Chapter 6, page 147, first paragraph:

"Since the history of Black Greek-lettered fraternal organizations has been incomplete in the past, one objective was to provide a more complete history, one that includes the introduction of a previously unknown Black fraternal organization, Gamma Phi Fraternity, which should rightfully be considered the first collegiate, Black fraternal organization."

DSTCHAOS · #11 05-27-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elusiveflip

Ok, I have the book back in my hands. So Im going to quote exactly what this Alpha has written. Chapter 6, page 147, first paragraph:

"Since the history of Black Greek-lettered fraternal organizations has been incomplete in the past, one objective was to provide a more complete history, one that includes the introduction of a previously unknown Black fraternal organization, Gamma Phi Fraternity, which should rightfully be considered the first collegiate, Black fraternal organization."

Okay...and if the posts in this thread don't clarify things for you then you probably wear a helmet.

Senusret I · #12 05-27-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Okay...and if the posts in this thread don't clarify things for you then you probably wear a helmet.

Yayyyyyyy!

elusiveflip · #13 05-27-2008, 01:15 PM

So let me get this straight A phi A's "first of all" entails just the first of all that currently exists. Not the first EVER? Correct?

Senusret I · #14 05-27-2008, 01:17 PM

You really and truly will not know what "First of all" means unless you are a member. Therefore, it is a little rude for you to ask.

That's me not being snarky about it.

elusiveflip · #15 05-27-2008, 01:25 PM

Fair enough. I realize any questioning of an organizations history is touchy, and I don't mean any overt disrespect. But that doesn't negate the existence of the facts. The whole selling point is argueable at best, untrue at worst. My question has been pretty much answered. If anyone else feels like weighing in though, feel free.