Biden / Palin VP Debate, Oct 2nd @ 9PM EST

[SWTXBelle]

Forget the juggling 5 kids and the campaign - if she can juggle the campaign AND plan a wedding as MOB - THAT is impressive.

[WarEagle07]

Originally Posted by nikki1920

So it WASNT just me who cringed when she said that.
Anyone else know what a "Talibani" is?

Jalal Talabani is the current President of Iraq and a leading Kurdish politician.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Forget the juggling 5 kids and the campaign - if she can juggle the campaign AND plan a wedding as MOB - THAT is impressive.

Didn't really think it took that long to plan a shotgun wedding.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

Yes, not in terms of policy, in terms of debating. He let her flat out call him wrong on a number of things without responding.

I.E. the "waving a white flag in Iraq" line and her response about what a troop surge in Afghanistan would entail and how wonderful it would be.

Most people don't tune into a debate to judge how wonderful the ideas are, they aren't knowledgeable enough to make that decision. And when you let your opponent flat out call you wrong or do something as bold as calling your Iraq policy surrender without responding to it, it comes across as you conceding the point. Biden certainly "out-facted" her through the entire debate, but he needed to give a short response and then make his own criticism instead of just shaking his head and letting them move on to the next question. The strict partisans already have an opinion on who "is right" and that's the person they will think won an issue. But to people who don't already have a strong opinion, when your opponent gives a strong criticism and you can't or don't respond to it at all, you just lost that point.

Well, we'll have to chalk it up to the prism you're watching it through then, because my impression of that "raising the white flag" bit was that it was so panned and rehearsed, she was obviously waiting to shuffle her cards and pull that one out. So I thought it fell completely flat. Biden showed not only knowledge but passion about foreign affairs issues. She clearly repeated what she'd been taught and stuck with McCain's platform.

I haven't read or heard anyone else saying she won points over Biden on foreign policy, but if you can supply some links (that aren't from Anne Coulter or someone of that ilk), I'd love to read or watch them.

[KSigkid]

Palin wasn't half bad, and probably better than most people (including myself) expected. Biden was a little too timid at the start, but got better towards the end.

I thought it would be a "do no harm" kind of night - both VP candidates have weaknesses, and the main thing was not to let those weaknesses hurt their respective campaigns. In that way, I think both accomplished their mission.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Well, we'll have to chalk it up to the prism you're watching it through then, because my impression of that "raising the white flag" bit was that it was so panned and rehearsed, she was obviously waiting to shuffle her cards and pull that one out. So I thought it fell completely flat. Biden showed not only knowledge but passion about foreign affairs issues. She clearly repeated what she'd been taught and stuck with McCain's platform.

I haven't read or heard anyone else saying she won points over Biden on foreign policy, but if you can supply some links (that aren't from Anne Coulter or someone of that ilk), I'd love to read or watch them.

and the rehersal was clear in how she paused before said it like she had to remember to say it...

[summer_gphib]

This debate should be used to teach school children about fallacies. Her rhetoric was almost a perfect example of red herring.

And then it should be used to teach about manners and research. "Hey can I call ya Joe" ain't the best manners.

And on the research front... the general in Afghanistan is McKiernan, not McClellan. Know your material and know it well, so you don't end up looking like a bozo.

On another note... I really felt for Biden when he was talking about being a single dad.

ETA: At least she brings some really funny material to SNL. I'm convinced that's the reason Bush was elected a second term.

[nikki1920]

Originally Posted by WarEagle07

Jalal Talabani is the current President of Iraq and a leading Kurdish politician.

Thanks!
I wasn't sure if she misspoke or what. That explains it.

[APhi Sailorgirl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Forget the juggling 5 kids and the campaign - if she can juggle the campaign AND plan a wedding as MOB - THAT is impressive.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Didn't really think it took that long to plan a shotgun wedding.

Actually they're supposedly thinking next summer according to the baby daddy's mom. Wonder if she's hoping for a white house wedding

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by APhi Sailorgirl

Actually they're supposedly thinking next summer according to the baby daddy's mom. Wonder if she's hoping for a white house wedding

They're getting married *AFTER* the baby's born?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Apropos of nothing . . . is anyone going to change their minds because of this? Obama/Biden fans will chuckle and say "See? We told you so." and the McCain/Palin fans will go "Yeah! She's great!". As to the undecided - hmmmm . . . you tell me.

At least one previously undecided in CNN's Ohio panel said the debate convinced her to commit to Obama, while another said it convinced her to vote for McCain. FWIW.

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Biden was terrific, IMO. He even had a real "moment" there! (my husband turned and gave me a fist bump on that one )

LOL. My wife and I did the same thing.

She accomplished her goal, which was not to repeat the disasters that were her interviews. Anything beyond that was a win for her, even if most watchers (per the polls, at least) thought that Biden did a better job than she did and that Biden presented a better case than she did.

[srmom]

I switched among all the news channels post debate and they all (including democrats) said that she did a pretty good job and that her likeability factor was higher than Biden's.

As an aside, I don't get all the vitriol towards her, it's almost like a psychosis. She isn't a boogie (wo)man who's hiding in the closet I don't feel hatred or fear about any of them. The people who truly wield the power are the legislators, and more frequently these days, the judiciary. The president, and certainly, the vice president can only wield any influence if they have a clear mandate from the people seen in a landslide vote. As much as people say Bush pushed us into war, the Congress voted to allow it and has allowed the budgetary appropriations to continue it. (mind you, I'm no Bush fan, I just find revisionist history interesting to watch unfold). Just like the people who are saying that it is the deregulation of the past 8 years that have brought us to this economic crisis, when it is very easy to find that factually the deregulation of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac began in 1999 (and the pressure for it began before that). All you need is google or nexis and the facts are right there in print.

It reminds me of the book 1984 - newspeak.

As for fact checking the vp debate - both fudged on the facts, both had flubs in terms of mis-speaking, but, we all view the performances based upon our predisposed biases.

off the soapbox.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

At least one previously undecided in CNN's Ohio panel said the debate convinced her to commit to Obama, while another said it convinced her to vote for McCain. FWIW.

LOL. My wife and I did the same thing.

She accomplished her goal, which was not to repeat the disasters that were her interviews. Anything beyond that was a win for her, even if most watchers (per the polls, at least) thought that Biden did a better job than she did and that Biden presented a better case than she did.

See, I didn't think Biden did all THAT well in the debate. I might have had too high an expectation for him, in that he's done this many times before. I thought he was much better during the second half of the debate (especially since they were talking about foreign policy, right in his wheelhouse), but I wasn't sure he did that much to advance the ticket.

If anything, I'd say that he did his best service to his campaign by not flying off the handle, so to speak, and by being fairly measured in his responses. It wasn't a bad performance, by any means, but I don't think it was his best performance.

One point, and this may just be the law nerd in me - if I were him, I wouldn't mention the Bork thing all that often. I think that the Bork nomination fight is a sore spot for Republicans, and that if he and Obama were to win, there could be some residual issues with their first Court nominee (especially if it's someone remotely controversial like Dean Koh, as opposed to a safer pick like Dean Kagan or Judge Sotomayor).

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

If anything, I'd say that he did his best service to his campaign by not flying off the handle, so to speak, and by being fairly measured in his responses. It wasn't a bad performance, by any means, but I don't think it was his best performance.

I missed the middle of the debate. I heard the first part on the car radio, got home and missed part while getting kids to bed, and then watched the last third or so.

I'd agree that the best thing he could do was not fly off the handle or say anything too stupid, and not say anything that could be construed as condescending, and I think from what I saw he pulled all that off well. While Sarah Palin's task was to do better than her interviews, Biden's task was not to blow it and he didn't. They both accomplished what they needed to accomplish.

We were watching it on CNN with their dial-meters for the panel/focus group in Ohio -- certainly an unscientific and limited group for statistical purposes. But it seemed that they typically reacted more favorably to Biden than Palin -- for her, the lines stayed flat quite a good portion of the time, particularly toward the end, while he was getting mostly positive reactions.

[agzg]

I don't know - maybe it was just me, but when Obama picked Biden my response was "WTF? That guy doesn't even like him!" Which, in turn, caused me to not like Biden and to scratch my head at Obama.

Which Sarah touched on last night. However, I'd have to say that his likeability definitely rose (in my mind) last night. I haven't really been exposed to him that much.

I mean, not to take it down to the Bush v. Kerry level, but I'll go there. I'd almost rather have a beer with Joe Biden. At least he's not going to say stuff like "OMG I'm a Hockey Mom!"