Baseball Season starting!!!!

[newbie]

Originally posted by Ex greek:

The white sox are in third right now However their younger players are coming into their own so the second half should be good. Cliff floyd got in because of an injury to mets pitcher rick reed.

How is estes doing this year? I am really surprised at how bad livan hernandez is doing this year. He is a good pitcher. Hey who knows, maybe the dodgers will cool off and your team will hit a winning streak. Anything can happen yet.

Hey Ex greek! Well, my Giants are in third too . Maybe you guys will totally surge during the second half and knock down the Twins or something ! Or you could look at the wild card. The Giants are 5.5 games back from first place Arizona . I hate Arizona as well as, of course, the 2nd place Dodgers, yuck! The Giants are SO sub-par this year, it's making me mad! All this talent we have, and we're just totally under-achieving.

Ya know, about Livan Hernandez and Shawn Estes. Livan had a HORRIBLE stretch of like 10 games where he just, plainly speaking, sucked. He is doing a lot better recently, that we Giants fans think he's finally getting his stuff back! I think the last 4 games he has been stellar. On Sunday, he only gave up 3 R, had 11Ks, but didn't get a decision .

Shawn Estes - well, he has had mostly a wonderful first half, with the exception of 2 dodger games (ughhhhh) and the most recent game - Saturday against Milwaukee. I think he is the only pitcher of the Giants (and maybe the MLB) who had never lost at home before! but unfortunately fate reversed itself and he lost Saturday. HIs past 3 starts haven't been so good!

Unfortunately, I don't know if you know or not - but Estes is a VERY emotional player, who really berates himself if he doesn't do well . So a lot of people say that his recent loss against Milwaukee won't be good for him, since he has to sit on it all throughout the All-Star Break till his next start! Hopefully he will put it behind him and do well in the second half, like he has mostly done so throughout the first half!!

Hopefully all the NL West teams but the Giants will suck in the 2nd half . I really hate Arizona and the Dodgers!!!

[This message has been edited by newbie (edited July 10, 2001).]

[newbie]

Originally posted by SSS1365:
I'm sad that Rick Reed was injured.

Awwww . how long will he be out??

[newbie]

Hey all you wonderful baseball fans !

OK so I was watching Politically Incorect yesterday, and the whole show was mainly about baseball! Mark Langston, former MLB player, was one of the guests. They were debating about players' salaries, their agents, and teams like Tampa Bay, Kansas City, etc.

Anyway, I wanted to get your opinions on these issues! WHat do you think about the enormous salaries that players get these days? Do you get annoyed at their agents, or do you think players have their say? Do you think teams like Tampa Bay, Kansas city (which do not draw well), should be abolished????

What I think:
1) About the salaries - it frickin gets on my nerves! Especially ARod's tremendous salary. It's the reason why tickets are jacked up so high, and the reason why only some games are televised non-cable. Also it will be the reason if Barry Bonds doesn't remain a Giant next year . I can't STAND the thought of him being not a Giant - he grew up a Giant and BETTER remain a Giant .

On the other hand, one guest argued that they should get those high salaries b/c they only play in the majors for a few years. What do y'all think?

2) About their agents - Although I know it's not always the agents' faults, I feel that they are the main reason for the jacked-up salaries, ESPECIALLY the agent Scott Boris, who demands so mcuh. They try to convince their clients that they should hold out and sign only if they are paid XXX amount of money.

3) About teams like Tampa Bay - though I agree that they are not THAT great for the game of baseball (they are faltering in $$$, and barely anybody goes to watch), I am scared if they are all abolished, and only the teams like the Yankees, the Dodgers remain. Like only the teams who have like a 100 Million payroll can compete. I think that's horrible for the game of baseball.

OK, hopefully you guys can tell me your take on these isseus .

[Thrillhouse]

Agents and salaries go hand in hand. I don't like either situation. I feel a salary cap should be used in the mlb. There should not be a 70 or a million dollar gap in salary between the top and bottom spending teams. No matter how good the twins are, they will not compete with the yankees or cleveland in the playoffs.

As for teams like tampa bay, I do think two teams should be eliminated. Those two are tampa and montreal. No offense to any fans of these two team, but they are atrocious franchises. Eliminateing two teams along with installing a salary cap will strengthen baseball. Think of eliminating two teams as eliminating the bottom 50 players in the league. Some players such as williw bliar shouldn't be in the league but are because of the number of roster spots in the league right now.

[KSig RC]

FREE AGENCY/SALARIES:

OK, well, this is an unpopular sentiment, but the salary scale isn't all that outrageous. Also - it's tough to blame ticket prices on the players; the owners give them the money, the players just sign a name on the bottom. For every ARod, Manny, or Hampton there's a Griffey or Larkin who took below-level pay to remain with an organization - why? B/c the Reds asked. If someone offered me 1/4 of 1 billion dollars to play baseball, of course I'd say yes (and I would wake up fifteen minutes later, but hey). Not all players are greedy - like Sean Casey said on the Rome show the other day, "Selfish players aren't the norm - they're just louder, so you think they are." What do you think Chipper Jones and Andruw Jones play for? No one knows - they don't publicize those kind of contracts. How about Vlad Guerrero? He's signed long-term, way below market value, in Montreal of all places . . . and he's not demanding a trade. So yeah - the salaries are hellish, but it's just like other sports . . . see the new contracts of Corey Dillon, Joe Sakic, Patty Roy, Tracy McGrady, etc . . .

AGENTS:

Yeah, I'm not a big Scott Boras fan - bottom line though? It's his job to do what his clients ask. Sure, he got big deals for ARod and a bunch of other guys (see his client Mark Prior not being drafted by the Twins for an example), but the player can always say 'no', and he has to sign the contract. Unfortunately, necessary evil.

CONTRACTION OF MLB:

Yeah, probably two teams need to go. Which ones though? The Expos and DRays? I don't think these are implicitly the two. Think about it - both of these are bad organizations? No way! The Expos have proven time and again to be an amazing organization when it comes to player development and drafting, and even trading. They get screwed simply b/c Montreal is a bad baseball town. Think back to all the sick, sick players the expos have had, and IMAGINE the '94 Expos team if they'd been able to stay together (yes, they were in first before the strike - on pace to break the league record for wins, if i remember correctly) . . . Let's think: Larry Walker w/ Vlad guerrero and jose vidro, pedro would still be pitching there, they wouldn't have had to trade for Hideki Irabu to force out prospects who didn't want to be there . . . there are tons of great players that went through that organization. Similar w/ TB - they might have the best farm system in baseball, it's loaded with potential major-leaguers. The second biggest contraction question is what to do with the players, and both of these teams have quite a few good ones (although the D-rays' aren't in the majors quite yet). Better to move the expos to N. VA, and maybe you can ditch TB to strengthen the marlins, but maybe not. KC is safe; it's been a mecca for baseball since the old negro leagues, there's no way they could get rid of the royals.

So who to ditch? I'd say either drop both FLA teams (but, again, who gets AJ Burnett? Who gets Josh Hamilton? Clifford Floyd? tough) . . . or drop Oakland (bad attendance, direct competition with the Giants) if you can't move them to San Jose.

If movements/changes could be made, the best solution might be to kill off the Rays, move the marlins to the orlando area, move the expos to Northern Virginia (seriously, do you think the orioles will have trouble filling camden yards? No way) . . . Then, if you can move the A's to San Jose, get rid of the Diamondbacks. They're a franchise in a lot of trouble financially, in a not-so-hot baseball area, and with very little farm system to work with - the high-priced veterans will be free agents soon anyway, and they won't contract for a couple years at the earliest, so that'll make it easier to drop them. Otherwise, the A's (while a great organization, with a deep farm and good front office staff) just can't do it in that market, with that relic of a field . . .

It's tough any way you look at it, though. The Twins would also be serious candidates to be disbanded, as well - regardless of them being in first place, the owner's a douche bag and won't spend money to keep them competitive (some amazing trades have given them most of the pitching staff they have, which is the key), the public won't support a new stadium with tax dollars, and doesn't support the team like they used to. I can't imagine the Twins being gone - they're the legacy of the Washington Senators, an original 1901 team (same with the A's), I've watched them since Kirby Puckett, and (other than fenway) the Metrodome is the stadium i've seen the most games in . . . it would be a shame. But so many teams have backed themselves into a corner . . .

Ok - now i'm rambling; bottom line - contraction probably won't happen any time soon (unfortunately), and it depends on so many factors (which teams will move, if the giants and orioles will consent to team moves, which teams stay in debt, etc.) that it's more of a puzzle than a picture. So there ya go - it needs to happen, but it'll be a heated debate. Loria in Montreal doesn't want to be bought out, but the Twins' owner might. TB wants to stay around, but the owner is half-assed. it's 6 of one, half-dozen of the other in every scenario.

[Thrillhouse]

Hey k sig, For a game in montreal against Tampa bay today, the attendance was 4,877. That I why I mentioned Montreal in my post

[Thrillhouse]

Hey k sig, For a game in montreal against Tampa bay today, the attendance was 4,877. That I why I mentioned Montreal in my post

[newbie]

ahh! i think the giants are cursed! we were playing the mariners, and we were leading 3-2 in the ninth with two outs. Nen gave up a HR, we go to extra innings, and in the 11th inning, the Mariners get 2 men on base with NO hits to the outfield!!!! Then the winning run, with two outs, is scored by a chop off the mound!!!! I swear the giants are cursed adn the mariners are blessed

these losses always hurt badly. . we were supposed to win this thing! and what is up with our bullpen...........

[This message has been edited by newbie (edited July 13, 2001).]

[SSS1365]

I hope they move the Expos to Northern VA, so we can finally have a pro sports team! Plus I'd get more opportunities to see the Mets play

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Ex greek:
Hey k sig, For a game in montreal against Tampa bay today, the attendance was 4,877. That I why I mentioned Montreal in my post

yeah dude - you're exactly right; Montreal, while incredible for its bars and strip clubs, just sucks as a baseball town. Move 'em to VA! At least, that's what seems like the best solution to me - but i mean someone's got to go, so maybe them. We'll see I guess - i think contraction will be a huge sticking point in the offseason's labor talks . . . should get ugly.

[newbie]

Can I ask, let's say that Oakland does move to SJ - do the Giants get to say "yesyou may" or "no"??? I would hate it if the A's moved to San Jose - that's where many Giants fans are! PLus it's where all the Silicon valley ppl are.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by newbie:
Can I ask, let's say that Oakland does move to SJ - do the Giants get to say "yesyou may" or "no"??? I would hate it if the A's moved to San Jose - that's where many Giants fans are! PLus it's where all the Silicon valley ppl are.

Right now, the Giants are saying no - but . . . do you really think that PacBell isn't going to be filled? I don't buy that - I think that moving the A's there would probably work fine for both. Just like the Orioles trivial claim to "territorial rights" to northern VA - if you're a Giants fan in San Jose, how does that change w/ the A's moving there? It's probably not a viable franchise in Oakland, and it's a 100-yr-old franchise . . . so why would the Giants block it? Maybe it's just me . . . but it seems like a million-dollar pissing contest.

[SSS1365]

The Orioles' "territorial rights" to NoVA, in my opinion, is a ridiculous excuse. Hello! Baltimore is in MARYLAND, not VIRGINIA. And try getting to Camden Yards from northern VA during rush hour traffic... it's not exactly a short drive. Besides, I don't think putting a team so close to B-more is gonna take away Orioles fans. For example, I am a Mets fan, and I live about 8 hours away from NY. You could put a stadium down the street from my house, and the Mets would still be number one to me.

Okay, I'm done now. You can tell I'm all for bringing a team to my state!

[newbie]

Rob, as much as I hate to admit this, a good percentage of ppl who attend Pac Bell Park games are yuppies from Silicon Valley! Most of them don't care at all about the Giants...rather, they look at Pac Bell park as "the place to be in SF" - which Pac Bell was, for a long time...maybe it still is (?). Anyway, it's pretty funny...one day there was a total sports show dedicated to how so many Giants "fans" are really from Silicon Valley, yapping on their cell phones, trying to "impress"...I really don't think there are THAT many yuppies...but who knows?

For example, one person said that there was this guy who looked like a total Bill Gates (haha) who started cheering when supposedly "Bonds" went to the plate...he was like "C'mon Barry, hit a HR!" haha. Actually it was this guy Calvin Murray who was batting...funny thing is, is that Calvin is relatively small compared to Barry, and also Calvin bats right-handed... .

Anyway, even though I don't like seeing yuppies at the park...they ARE, I guess, a rather important part of revenue. There are also a lot of casual Giant fans from SJ, and maybe, just maybe, if Oakland moved there, and was a good team (as they are in Oak-town), those casual fans would be converted. Who knows...

About Anaheim...wow...that would certainly be a cause of controversy, I think. I would hate to see NY/LA/some other big-money team get all those great free agents! Yet another dynasty created ...How well do the Angels draw BTW?

[This message has been edited by newbie (edited July 16, 2001).]

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by newbie:

About Anaheim...wow...that would certainly be a cause of controversy, I think. I would hate to see NY/LA/some other big-money team get all those great free agents! Yet another dynasty created ...How well do the Angels draw BTW?

I don't think the Angels draw too badly - I mean, they're considered 'mid-market' but I thik more likely it's just that Disney wants to dump sports teams (not too hot for the bottom line).