Bush Wins

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva
dummy....you can't just sit....you have to sit sit.....sheesh.

Oh, of COURSE! What was i thinking? Do we have to watch BYU and Bears highlight films featuring the punky QB known as McMahon?

or maybe sign allegience letters to the Socialist, er i mean, Democratic party?


Oh, the hell with this, i'm goin to the bar, later y'all

KS 361

[honeychile]

Originally posted by The1calledTKE
Where did I tell Mon to do anything thing? I mentioned a site that might have no Bush bashing. This board is divided like the country is politically so the chance of no Bush bashing is unrealistic is all I am saying.

I reread your post, and yes, I probably misread your intent. The thread where I said that we need to be in a reconcilatory mode was deleted, so I'll just repeat it now.

[AGDee]

Larry King's show last night was really thought provoking. There were reps from each party and everything was calm and thoughtful. They discussed the fact that this country is more divided than it's ever been, save for during the Civil War, and that it will be a very long process to ever become united. They also discussed how deeply saddened the Kerry supporters were that he is gone and how they are actually grieving, unlike anything in recent history. The general concensus, even among the Republican reps there, was that the Republicans are going to have to move toward the middle if the country is going to be unified.

This board was full of attacks from both sides during the campaign. To say that only bush-haters were attacking is unfair. There were numerous posts about Democrats being liars, vast generalizations made about each party by people form the opposing parties. It was constant, it was insulting and it was cruel on the part of some of the posters.

A 51% to 48% victory isn't a landslide, it's a narrow victory and it shows just how divided this country is. Even in most "blue" or "red" states, those races were close, which means, state by state, people are divided.

We were pretty divided in 2000 also, but, less than a year after the election, 9/11 happened and really unified the country again. Hopefully we can find a way to be unified without a tragedy like that again.

I think we should be concerned that people are so worried about the state of our country that some may feel they have to leave.

Dee

[ASUADPi]

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva
alright look......dems out there in GC land.....y'all have been going on for MONTHS about how kerry was gonna win.....what's the big deal with us repubs having ONE DAY where we can rejoice in our victory???? we haven't been able to say one word (before or since) that hasn't been attacked with some kerry biznass.....so, for the next 24 hrs, can ya cut us a break?

No offense or anything but it has been over 24 hours.

Plus, I just love how you claim it is okay for all the Bush fans to be completely arrogant about him winning but it's not okay for the Kerry fans to be upset. I find that line of thinking quite hypocritical, impo.


As for the Dems on GC land, I rarely visit this forum so I don't know if the Dems were giving the Rebs a hard time about Bush Vs. Kerry. But you didn't have to respond or read those threads in the first place. If it's true, well then the Dems shouldn't have behaved that way. But can you honestly say that during this heated and contraversial election that the Repbulicans didn't the Dems crap right on back?


Like I said earlier, politics are ugly, they will always be ugly. Mainly because there are SOOOO many issues out there that everyone has a completely different view point on. This is what makes us all individuals.

[AlphaGamDiva]

Originally posted by ASUADPi
No offense or anything but it has been over 24 hours.

Plus, I just love how you claim it is okay for all the Bush fans to be completely arrogant about him winning but it's not okay for the Kerry fans to be upset. I find that line of thinking quite hypocritical, impo.


As for the Dems on GC land, I rarely visit this forum so I don't know if the Dems were giving the Rebs a hard time about Bush Vs. Kerry. But you didn't have to respond or read those threads in the first place. If it's true, well then the Dems shouldn't have behaved that way. But can you honestly say that during this heated and contraversial election that the Repbulicans didn't the Dems crap right on back?


Like I said earlier, politics are ugly, they will always be ugly. Mainly because there are SOOOO many issues out there that everyone has a completely different view point on. This is what makes us all individuals.

yeah, it's been over 24 hours, and we never had 5 minutes. i'm not saying to be "arrogant" either....i'm saying "rejoice" which is to be happy and celebrate something we voted for and won. kerry fans can be upset all they want to, i'd be upset if it was the other way around....but i don't think being upset means showing a picture of an upside down American flag with a gas can stuck to it is necessary, or talking about leaving the country, or omg i can't believe Americans are so stupid. that's going beyond upset and into insulting. i'm not being hypocritical....i'm just asking for things to be fair and polite.

as far as not reading or responding to threads.....ok. come around more and see how easy that is to do. sometimes you think a thread is going to be one thing, or it starts out as one thing, but then leads to something completely different. plenty of repub threads have been disrupted (as have dem threads), so there's no way to avoid that. and as for "crapping" on each other.....dems out-number us. a lot. and they are louder than some of us. some have fought back, some haven't. but read through some of the threads and posts on here and see who you think has done more damage to this particular forum....as far as name-calling, belittle-ing, etc. you may find we have a reason to celebrate...or be "arrogant" as you call it.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
Oh, of COURSE! What was i thinking? Do we have to watch BYU and Bears highlight films featuring the punky QB known as McMahon?

or maybe sign allegience letters to the Socialist, er i mean, Democratic party?


Oh, the hell with this, i'm goin to the bar, later y'all

KS 361

I'm actually a Totalitarian, yo.

And I prefer vodka tonics.

But way to stereotype.

BFB.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by AGDee

I think we should be concerned that people are so worried about the state of our country that some may feel they have to leave.

Dee

I think this is really, really true.

On livejournal, I've read many, many entries over the past few days about how disappointed, frustrated, bitter, and sad people are with our country. They are much more so upset than anybody I knew was after 2000, and a lot of people I knew were very upset after 2000 -- but they considered it a fluke election. Obviously this election has proved that it wasn't a fluke, it is indicative of the way this country is moving. Many of them said that they can no longer consider themselves proud to be an American (either because of the president that was elected, other policies that were voted for, etc.). The pure number of people who have said this is both frightening and unsurprising. And like you said, a 51-48 split is hardly a blowout. The Founding Fathers about those who were in the "minority" having their rights steamrolled by those who were in the majority and they explored many different ways of trying to make sure as many people's interests were met as possible. I think that's something that we've lost sight of in recent years (in both parties), and something that is could get even more lost with the current administration.

Honestly, if people really ARE upset or scared enough with the way this country is heading that they really do want to move (and aren't just throwing a "wah my candidate didn't win" temper tamtrum), that is something to be concerned about -- if you can't say "I'm proud to be an American" because of something that's happening in our country right now, be it the election, something else that was voted on, the dirty campaigns, whatever -- to me, that's serious. You should be able to be proud of being an American regardless of whether or not you agree with the leader or are proud of him. If there is an increasing number of people who can't be proud of America as it is, to me that's worrisome.

[AlphaGamDiva]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I think this is really, really true.

On livejournal, I've read many, many entries over the past few days about how disappointed, frustrated, bitter, and sad people are with our country. They are much more so upset than anybody I knew was after 2000, and a lot of people I knew were very upset after 2000 -- but they considered it a fluke election. Obviously this election has proved that it wasn't a fluke, it is indicative of the way this country is moving. Many of them said that they can no longer consider themselves proud to be an American (either because of the president that was elected, other policies that were voted for, etc.). The pure number of people who have said this is both frightening and unsurprising. And like you said, a 51-48 split is hardly a blowout. The Founding Fathers about those who were in the "minority" having their rights steamrolled by those who were in the majority and they explored many different ways of trying to make sure as many people's interests were met as possible. I think that's something that we've lost sight of in recent years (in both parties), and something that is could get even more lost with the current administration.

Honestly, if people really ARE upset or scared enough with the way this country is heading that they really do want to move (and aren't just throwing a "wah my candidate didn't win" temper tamtrum), that is something to be concerned about -- if you can't say "I'm proud to be an American" because of something that's happening in our country right now, be it the election, something else that was voted on, the dirty campaigns, whatever -- to me, that's serious. You should be able to be proud of being an American regardless of whether or not you agree with the leader or are proud of him. If there is an increasing number of people who can't be proud of America as it is, to me that's worrisome.

it's always gonna be that way....these things go in spurts......there were a lot of ppl i knew who were just as concerned during the clinton administration.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
Yeah, ONE DAY.

But we have to eat SHEETCAKE right? and sit in RECLINA LOUNGERS? and drink G&T'S?

KS 361

PINK DRINKS, Kitso, get it right. G&T's are only for Lil' Hannah and occasionally the rest of us will indulge.

And thanks for derailing this thread for us . . . it saves time in our plot towards world domination, or at least in our plot of turning every pro-Bush thread into a thread about ourselves.

[AGDee]

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva
it's always gonna be that way....these things go in spurts......there were a lot of ppl i knew who were just as concerned during the clinton administration.

I knew people who truly couldn't stand Clinton, but I didn't hear people (like on NPR today) who felt that the country was pushing them out because there are now state Constitutional amendments that encourage discrimination. There are people who feel that they cannot continue to live in the United States because they don't have the same rights here as other citizens. I think people are becoming personally offended by the way other Americans are treating them or talking about them. I know I get personally offended when I hear Bush talking about important marriage is in our society and how we need to keep families together, since I've been divorced twice. I know a lot of people (mainly women) who are very offended that someone wants to tell them what they can and cannot do with their uterus. I know others who are very worried about the way the Patriot Act has been implemented, and how it takes away our civil rights.

Also, particularly with the gay marriage issue, they aren't feeling alienated by the President per se, but by the general population. The man I heard them interviewing on NPR today was in tears and said "I just want to marry my partner, like other people get to do".

Dee

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by AGDee
I knew people who truly couldn't stand Clinton, but I didn't hear people (like on NPR today) who felt that the country was pushing them out because there are now state Constitutional amendments that encourage discrimination.

This is exactly how I feel, and I'm straight.

Honestly, I am not sure I can be proud of an America that votes to write discrimination into the Constitution when I was raised to be proud of American because we don't discriminate in our Constitution. And it worries me, because, sure, the gay marriage laws don't affect me, but what's next? This is the first time that I can think of that Americans have chosen to put discrimination based on sexual preference/race/religion/gender/whatever BACK into the Constitution, and that doesn't bode well for the future of this country, IMO. That's not what I was taught that this country was about.

Now, I realize that this doesn't have much if anything to do with the Bush re-election, and honestly, having Bush back in office doesn't upset or frighten me nearly as much as the anti-gay marriage voters do. But the two are closely linked in voters' minds because they appeared on the same ballots and Bush has supported anti-gay marriage initiatives.

I realize that people are upset after ANY election -- no candidate is going to please one hundred percent of the population, or even sixty. But the vibe I got from people after the 1992/1996/2000 elections was MUCH MUCH different from the vibe I'm getting right now.

[AlphaGamDiva]

i'm not going to say much on this b/c i agree that there should be no marriage ammendment....so i'll make this as short as i can and hope that i am not taken out of context.

yes, there is discrimination. there has ALWAYS been discrimination. and for the past while, there has been an amazing amount of discrimination against Christians. that offends me....personally. we are not allowed to pray in schools (unless we're quiet about it), we are not allowed to say the pledge to the flag b/c of "under God"....it will more than likely be taken off of our currency sooner than later. it will never be fair to EVERYONE.....but no one was screaming "discrimination" when anything was taken away from us. when Christians are being persecuted and denied what we believed to be our rights, people are like, "so?" we didn't want roe v wade, but here it is. why should one group of this country get more consideration than another? they shouldn't, but it happens. it's cool to be gay and need rights, but it's not cool to be a Christian....ever. yeah, we're allowed to get married, but marriage to us is a holy thing....it's not a civil right or an American priviledge, but something given to us by God. that's why most conservatives want it protected, so to speak, b/c they see gays as habitual and unremorseful sinners that should not partake in such a holy gift. again, not saying that i agree, but that's what i understand.

ok, that's short....i'll defend it later. let the flame war begin, i guess.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I think this is really, really true.

On livejournal, I've read many, many entries over the past few days about how disappointed, frustrated, bitter, and sad people are with our country. They are much more so upset than anybody I knew was after 2000, and a lot of people I knew were very upset after 2000...

I would agree with most of your post - there is a sufficient number of unhappy Americans to address those problems, but with one caveat:

What would you consider the average age of those who have or peruse Live Journal?

What is the average age of the American voter?


See, this is where I see the Democratic Party shooting themselves in the collective foot. The party has to be attractive to people of all ages, not just the many splinter groups involved. I cringed everytime I saw "Women for (Kerry or Bush)", "Sportsmen for (Kerry or Bush)", "Teachers for (Kerry or Bush)" etc.

Maybe this is just my opinion, but I think those bumper stickers & such did more harm than good to our country, and very little for the vote. Of course, one of the funny things I saw on Election Day was a man with "Sportsmen for Kerry" on his bumper, while I was just behind him with a client who had "Sportsmen for Bush" on the front of his car!

[VIOLETGRL24]

First the Yankees now this. Oh Great

[RACooper]

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva
i'm not going to say much on this b/c i agree that there should be no marriage ammendment....so i'll make this as short as i can and hope that i am not taken out of context.

yes, there is discrimination. there has ALWAYS been discrimination. and for the past while, there has been an amazing amount of discrimination against Christians. that offends me....personally. we are not allowed to pray in schools (unless we're quiet about it), we are not allowed to say the pledge to the flag b/c of "under God"....it will more than likely be taken off of our currency sooner than later. it will never be fair to EVERYONE.....but no one was screaming "discrimination" when anything was taken away from us. when Christians are being persecuted and denied what we believed to be our rights, people are like, "so?" we didn't want roe v wade, but here it is. why should one group of this country get more consideration than another? they shouldn't, but it happens. it's cool to be gay and need rights, but it's not cool to be a Christian....ever. yeah, we're allowed to get married, but marriage to us is a holy thing....it's not a civil right or an American priviledge, but something given to us by God. that's why most conservatives want it protected, so to speak, b/c they see gays as habitual and unremorseful sinners that should not partake in such a holy gift. again, not saying that i agree, but that's what i understand.

ok, that's short....i'll defend it later. let the flame war begin, i guess.

And flame I shall

I don't really see any discrimination against Christians... just certain brands of Christians if you will, or more specifically the right or fundamentalist Christian. You complain about why should one group of the US get more consideration than another... when you seem to want greater consideration for your interpretation of Christianity... So what you can't pray (applies to all faiths) in a public school; see here's the thing public means state, so seperation between Church (which is more than just Christianity) and State... if you have a problem just go to a relgious school. Okay the under God in the pledge.. umm it's not just Christians that pray to "God"... so again I don't see this as singling out Christians. You also mention Roe vs Wade; umm... what makes you think that the people who brought it about and have supported don't ascribe to the Christian faith? As for marriage, yes for you it is performed in a Church/Temple/whatever but it is ultimatley the state that grants the legal recognition of the union... what the neo-con/religious right want is for the state to mandate their beliefs on all others, thereby enforcing their will on others and therefore discriminating against people of faiths or beliefs that are different or not in line with the "accepted faith".