Ex-Gang Members? - Page 9

Sistermadly · #**121** 04-08-2004, 06:18 PM

P-n-C:

My take on "being in a gang" and "gang activity" is that a person who is in this situation is guilty by association. So that even if someone is in a gang (for self-preservation purposes, meaning that if they didn't join, the consequences would be far worse if they didn't affiliate), it doesn't automatically mean that this person is engaged in criminal activity.

People have a right to association, regardless of the association. So the act of just being in a gang is not in and of itself a criminal act. Are there criminal elements within gang assocations? Sure there are. The problem is that if you associate with something that has a negative connotation, you're going to be painted with that brush even if you never lift a finger and engage in any criminal activity.

Gangs and criminal activity aren't mutually exclusive terms, but at the same time, it isnt' an equivalent relationship.

CarolinaCutie · #**122** 04-08-2004, 06:24 PM

Is it common for gang members to join and then not commit any crimes? I would assume, based on my limited knowledge, that once in the gang, there would be peer pressure to commit violent acts? But I don't really know.

cash78mere · #**123** 04-08-2004, 06:50 PM

i'll answer the original question-

no, i probably wouldn't allow an ex-gang member to join if it was a known fact. it would bring down my organization. i really would have to know all the facts of the person before i definitely decided.

i know several boys (now men) and girls (now women) who were in gangs back in high school. they used greek letters actually as their names --omega something for the boys and phi tau for the girls. they did some nasty shit to each other and to other people. and yes, they were white gangs. very well known around here. we tried to stay away from them and didn't go to the areas they hung around in at night.

Peaches-n-Cream · #**124** 04-08-2004, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sistermadly
P-n-C:

My take on "being in a gang" and "gang activity" is that a person who is in this situation is guilty by association. So that even if someone is in a gang (for self-preservation purposes, meaning that if they didn't join, the consequences would be far worse if they didn't affiliate), it doesn't automatically mean that this person is engaged in criminal activity.

People have a right to association, regardless of the association. So the act of just being in a gang is not in and of itself a criminal act. Are there criminal elements within gang assocations? Sure there are. The problem is that if you associate with something that has a negative connotation, you're going to be painted with that brush even if you never lift a finger and engage in any criminal activity.

Gangs and criminal activity aren't mutually exclusive terms, but at the same time, it isnt' an equivalent relationship.

When I think of gangs, I think of the Crips, Bloods, Latin Kings, Ghost Shadows, and the Mafia. They are associations formed in order to commit crimes. I think that in order to be initiated into a gang, they must commit crimes.

Anyway I googled this topic and found a site called the National Youth Gang Center which contains a page of Frequently Asked Questions about gangs. It is interesting.

Rudey · #**125** 04-08-2004, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cash78mere
i'll answer the original question-

no, i probably wouldn't allow an ex-gang member to join if it was a known fact. it would bring down my organization. i really would have to know all the facts of the person before i definitely decided.

i know several boys (now men) and girls (now women) who were in gangs back in high school. they used greek letters actually as their names --omega something for the boys and phi tau for the girls. they did some nasty shit to each other and to other people. and yes, they were white gangs. very well known around here. we tried to stay away from them and didn't go to the areas they hung around in at night.

Who is arguing about whether white gangs exist?

-Rudey

starang21 · #**126** 04-08-2004, 07:03 PM

wow....posts being deleted left and right. there goes that whole thing about open dialouge. people really ARE sensitive on this site.

amycat412 · #**127** 04-08-2004, 07:06 PM

Posts that did not pertain to the subject-- ie boosting post count, or posted/quoted/referred people to call them to complain to a number of a GCer who is not the person posting the # were removed.

This is a good thread with a mature dialogue going on. Just the off topic posts were deleted.

amycat412 · #**128** 04-08-2004, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
I don't understand why my post was deleted since it didn't violate the TOS. Again, a gang is not the usage of the word to mean a group of friends. If it was that way everyone would be in a gang and there wouldn't be an issue of letting someone in a gang into your group.

-Rudey

The photo, phone # in your signature and profile are why your posts are being deleted. Take it out and they won't be.

The posts attcking you were also deleted. As were the posts bickering back and forth (not yours) with nothing to do with the topic.

starang21 · #**129** 04-08-2004, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amycat412
Posts that did not pertain to the subject-- ie boosting post count, or posted/quoted/referred people to call them to complain to a number of a GCer who is not the person posting the # were removed.

This is a good thread with a mature dialogue going on. Just the off topic posts were deleted.

don't pretend that tangents don't happen on this site.

amycat412 · #**130** 04-08-2004, 07:10 PM

Tangents are fine.

As is the moderator choosing to steer a good topic back to the topic in a forum that's been off the charts lately.

This, for instance, is a tangent.

Now please, back to the useful discussion.

TheEpitome1920 · #**131** 04-08-2004, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
When I think of gangs, I think of the Crips, Bloods, Latin Kings, Ghost Shadows, and the Mafia. They are associations formed in order to commit crimes. I think that in order to be initiated into a gang, they must commit crimes.

Couldn't that apply to us? We make people commit crimes to be initiated...all those reports of students in the hospital or a grave trying to get 2 or 3 letters...

starang21 · #**132** 04-08-2004, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
Couldn't that apply to us? We make people commit crimes to be initiated...all those reports of students in the hospital or a grave trying to get 2 or 3 letters...

where's that lightbulb?

TheEpitome1920 · #**133** 04-08-2004, 07:22 PM

Everyone's saying that they KNOW who they are bringing into their organizations when in actuality you may not be 100%. You have women/men coming to your chapter from all around the world and you have no idea what they did prior to coming to your university. And unless you ASK her/him specifically "do you have an illegal activity in your past" (and even then they might deny it) you'll never know. Of course you would like to think if they are pursuing membership into your organization they have left that behind but its not always the case. The individuals I was referring to in my original post give NO indication that they had a shady past. One was even president of their chapter and had a 3.9 GPA! One was still active in the gang and one gave it up...

AXJules · #**134** 04-08-2004, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarolinaCutie
Yeah, I am confused. Wouldn't a group of people who dress in similar colors, hang out together, etc. but do NOT commit crimes or violent acts just be considered a clique or a club? I associate the term gang with violence.

Sigh...I was waiting for someone to say this. Good call.

If the gang wasn't criminally affiliated, they would essentially be a club. The word 'gang' is supposed to have negative connotations.
From dictionary.com:
gang1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gng)
n.
A group of criminals or hoodlums who band together for mutual protection and profit.
A group of adolescents who band together, especially a group of delinquents.

It is also used informally, as in "The whole gang from the office went to lunch."

THEREFORE....would I accept a GANG member? Um no, because they chose to affiliate themselves with an organization based around criminal activity, petty or otherwise. No, that doesn't mean that they themselves committed a crime, but it means they made a conscious decision to affiliate with people who did. I don't respect that. I dont' care why they joined, the ultimate result is a person who hung around with criminals.

And to whoever keeps saying that the majority of gangs steal street signs and spray paint things, I don't want one of those in my house, either. It's disrespectful- there is no indication that the person would have any respect for my own, or our sisters', belongings. No thanks.

AXJules · #**135** 04-08-2004, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
Everyone's saying that they KNOW who they are bringing into their organizations when in actuality you may not be 100%. You have women/men coming to your chapter from all around the world and you have no idea what they did prior to coming to your university. And unless you ASK her/him specifically "do you have an illegal activity in your past" (and even then they might deny it) you'll never know. Of course you would like to think if they are pursuing membership into your organization they have left that behind but its not always the case. The individuals I was referring to in my original post give NO indication that they had a shady past. One was even president of their chapter and had a 3.9 GPA! One was still active in the gang and one gave it up...

I think what they were saying is that many orgs go to a LOT of trouble to do the best they can when it comes to screening a person for such offenses. Obviously no one knows with 100% accuracy, but you do the best you can. Even people hiring someone for a job can make a mistake.

The original question was not "Do you screen for gang members", it was "Would you take a gang member?". I think you have to make the assumption that you know they're in a gang, then answer the question.