It happened again... - Page 9

rubyrose · #**121** 10-31-2002, 12:30 PM

The latest is that the whole chapter has been suspended by its national organization. A university official has been quoted as saying that even if the national organization decides to reinstate the chapter, the university may not necessarily allow them to do so. Here is the link to the story in the UT Daily Beacon today:

http://dailybeacon.utk.edu/article.php/7881

AKA_Monet · #**122** 10-31-2002, 09:14 PM

James--

If I understand you correctly, are you saying that the definition of the word or the meaning behind the word--which indicates emotion--or the systemics of the word, racism, in this context is political?

I have to disagree with you. Those little boys did not wear blackface because they were trying to make a political statement. In my opinion, they wore blackface because they thought their costume would be cool in that fashion. However, the viewers of their choices transcended the context of their meaning and made this issue a political one. The only thing I could come up with that is equivalent is when does one use the "N-word"? I personally, having identified and qualified myself as an African American have chosen to erase the concept from my mind. Like, who made that bullshit assed word anyways? Guess that is why I am not in English, but in science...

But I do agree that the meaning of racism is bogus and ill-defines the complexities of disagreements...

ktsnake and cash78mere:

Given the horrors that some of my ancestors incurred and the fact I feel I must make strong statements to get my point across, then I FEEL that to me, this incident and all other incidents like it is a "terrorist attack". Yes, a couple of my ancestors were lynching and hung in a tree after being chased by the Klan through the woods of Georgia at least 100 years ago. To see before and after pictures of my ancestors, whom I never met and what they endured, I ask you, how does one just get over it?

Moreover, just because every one of us here saw 9-11 live on television in no way lessens an ethnic group's suffering a pain. Also, 100 years from now, do we really want our great-great grandchildren arguing the same point? When are folks to tear down bullisht barriers and come to some kind of consensus?

Tom Earp--I craft my statements carefully now that I'm in my 30's to make folks clarify their thinking and give introspection into their souls. Because, to whom the gods wish to destroy, they must first make them angry...

I also have a life-changing event that I had not choice but to understand and it tested my concept of what I call unconditional love. My view is how am I gonna call myself a Christian, love Christ and espouse His Word, and bash my fellow man or woman on the head?

That is why I have verbally boxed with Klansmen before and now their views about life have changed...

The Spirit always trumps science and knowledge... This just the way the Universe spins...

James · #**123** 10-31-2002, 09:47 PM

I might not have been clear lol.

There has been a definition of racism used in debate on here that basically says that a minority group or an individual member of that group can't be "racist".

In order to be "racist" you need to be a member of a majority group that has power, or just the group that controls the existing power structure.

I am thinking that according to this definition the white goverment in South Africa would have been racist because they had power, but they were not a majority group.

Since this definition has been used here as the basis of argument, I was merely pointing out that its a political definiton of the word designed to promote an agenda.

As for the Kappa Sigs. They are screwed bottom line. It will teach about going to far in the interest of emulation. *shrug*

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
James--

If I understand you correctly, are you saying that the definition of the word or the meaning behind the word--which indicates emotion--or the systemics of the word, racism, in this context is political?

I have to disagree with you. Those little boys did not wear blackface because they were trying to make a political statement. In my opinion, they wore blackface because they thought their costume would be cool in that fashion. However, the viewers of their choices transcended the context of their meaning and made this issue a political one. The only thing I could come up with that is equivalent is when does one use the "N-word"? I personally, having identified and qualified myself as an African American have chosen to erase the concept from my mind. Like, who made that bullshit assed word anyways? Guess that is why I am not in English, but in science...

But I do agree that the meaning of racism is bogus and ill-defines the complexities of disagreements...

lovelyivy84 · #**124** 10-31-2002, 10:24 PM

*sigh*

If this thread is going to turn into another exploration of the meaning of the word racism then I vote it be closed because there will NEVER be headway made here. I think librasoul22 is wrong personally but who am I to impose my opinion?

PLEASE let that one go.

Back to the topic:

blackface is bad.

next question?

Quote:

Originally posted by librasoul22

Um...was this supposed to have a point, or were you just fining tuning your ability to be unecessarily verbose?

I will attempt to wade through the words and find some sort of meaning in order to respond.

First of all, no one said that BECAUSE a culture is dominant, then they MUST be racist. It is a correlation, not causation. Here in the United States, yes, the dominant culture AS A WHOLE perpetuates a system of oppression on minorities. Does that mean that each individual of the dominant culture is inherently racist? No, of course not.

Again, I am not at all sure what your point was from this post, so I am not really sure what to expound on.

btw, DeltAlum, I have strong Cherokee blood...maybe we are cousins! lol

ZetaLuvBunny · #**125** 10-31-2002, 11:09 PM

Stupid me, I didn't realise there was already a thread about this before I started another one today. It wasn't very obvious, though, because the name of this thread is rather vague. Can somebody delete that thread for me? Thanx.

Tom Earp · #**126** 10-31-2002, 11:29 PM

Mixed Blood!

Just how many people are of a pure blood race?

Sematics and name calling are a part of the world becaus of many not one reasons!

IRA, PLO, KKK, etc.

Just what do they accomplish! Not a damn thing except lose of life and esteem of self!

A white cannot say certain words that a Black says, or a black cannot say certain words about a white, or no one can say words about Asian, Arabic, Italian, Irish, Aussies, Canadians.

Just where just it end?

Blacks can use Nasty words that Whites cannot use and whites can use that blacks cannot use!

I see it ever day dealing with the public!

I hope some of you most inlightened persons can explain this to me without flaming my butt!

Yes I have seen much more than everyone of you so diss my knowledge of the street and dealing with the Public!

How deep in the dregs have you been? Have you seen the worst of the worst?

Have you had to deal with pimps, whores, drug dealers, theives, robbers, murderers? Seen, people cut, shot, and dead?

I have been told that because I have been there I have not lived it! Well get into real life and see what the real life is!

And have a nice day!

Optimist Prime · #**127** 11-01-2002, 12:43 AM

I've been thinking....I saw a rerun of jeffersons last night. George, mr. jefferson, dressed up as charlie chaplin in his role as the little tramp. He did not feel the need to use "white face" Also, in those days, there were blacks, whites, all races on the same show. Now it is segregated. Why is that? Why the step backwards?

kdonline · #**128** 11-01-2002, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
I've been thinking....I saw a rerun of jeffersons last night. George, mr. jefferson, dressed up as charlie chaplin in his role as the little tramp. He did not feel the need to use "white face" Also, in those days, there were blacks, whites, all races on the same show. Now it is segregated. Why is that? Why the step backwards?

Isn't it funny how shows like The Jeffersons, which spunoff from All In The Family (another groundbreaking show), were more "cynically" racist, though they were made 30 years ago?

If shows like those were made today, they'd never be on the air.

We're so much more politically correct now...but is that good or bad?

Kevin · #**129** 11-01-2002, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA_Monet

ktsnake and cash78mere:

Moreover, just because every one of us here saw 9-11 live on television in no way lessens an ethnic group's suffering a pain. Also, 100 years from now, do we really want our great-great grandchildren arguing the same point? When are folks to tear down bullisht barriers and come to some kind of consensus?

It doesn't lessen it... But it should put it in perspective.

Better to be offended than dead.

If one is offended it is something that they have to deal with. I personally have a hard time putting myself in the shoes of someone who could possibly be THAT offended. So I'll just accept your statement that for YOU it is a terrorist act... You see it that way so who am I to say otherwise? I'll just disagree from my perspective that it is indeed what you think it is.

The fact is that as long as one group chooses to be offended by something the other group does and as long as the later group chooses to do things that offend the former group the barriers will remain and there will not be consesnus on anything (at least in that realm).

---

As for Prime.. I don't know if I'd say today's shows are more politically correct. I'd DEFINITELY say that television has gone towards a more stereotypical portrayal of races.... ie. white men are all like Jeff Foxworthy and black men are like Martin Lawerence. Or look at Will and Grace or Ellen... the public wouldn't buy it if one of the guys from Friends (well maybe Ross) was gay... but they'll buy these highly stereotypical portrayals.

They have done so because stereotypical portrayals are the only type that the public will accept. If someone sees something on TV that is discordant with the information they already consider to be accurate they will change the channel to something that fits their stereotypes better...

starang21 · #**130** 11-01-2002, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Mixed Blood!

Just how many people are of a pure blood race?

Sematics and name calling are a part of the world becaus of many not one reasons!

IRA, PLO, KKK, etc.

Just what do they accomplish! Not a damn thing except lose of life and esteem of self!

A white cannot say certain words that a Black says, or a black cannot say certain words about a white, or no one can say words about Asian, Arabic, Italian, Irish, Aussies, Canadians.

Just where just it end?

Blacks can use Nasty words that Whites cannot use and whites can use that blacks cannot use!

I see it ever day dealing with the public!

I hope some of you most inlightened persons can explain this to me without flaming my butt!

Yes I have seen much more than everyone of you so diss my knowledge of the street and dealing with the Public!

How deep in the dregs have you been? Have you seen the worst of the worst?

Have you had to deal with pimps, whores, drug dealers, theives, robbers, murderers? Seen, people cut, shot, and dead?

I have been told that because I have been there I have not lived it! Well get into real life and see what the real life is!

And have a nice day!

you can sit there and complain about how to PC stuff has become. but if someone calls me a racist name and say i'm being to PC, i'm sure having my foot in their ass is going to change their perspective. you can say or do whatever you want, offend whomever you want, but don't cry and complain when someone calls you out on it and does more to you than just call you a racist.

Cloud9 · #**131** 11-01-2002, 06:07 PM

Ok, I couldn't take it any longer! I know I've been MIA in terms of posting, but I definitely read posts frequently and am up to date on everything that is discussed. And now, I must post in response to the following quote:

Quote:

If one is offended it is something that they have to deal with. I personally have a hard time putting myself in the shoes of someone who could possibly be THAT offended. So I'll just accept your statement that for YOU it is a terrorist act... You see it that way so who am I to say otherwise? I'll just disagree from my perspective that it is indeed what you think it is.

I totally agree, and I'll use an examble to explain why. The thing is, that when you begin to use things such as personal feelings to punish people's actions, who's to say that you won't be punished for something ridiculous that some looney finds offensive? For example, some say that dressing in blackface is offensive. I myself, knowing the background and connotations, find it very disturbing and can't understand how a normal human being could want to belittle another human being like that. In another case, there are men who like to dress up as women, i.e. drag queens. Some do it as a lifestyle, some do it for parties, or what have you. Now I think that everyone can agree that females are the common abused group in every culture throughout history. Now in most cases I don't really care, but when I see some guy dressed up as a "typical girl", i.e. short skirt, popping gum, twirling hair, and saying "oh my GAWD, gag me with a spoon!", I think it could very well be seen as belittling women. And there are some idiots that are even more annoying, dressing as sorority girls that just loooooooooove to be hoochies, etc. But look people, you just can't go around punishing every idiot you come across in the world. There are just too damn many. Not only that, but really, if you have someone who's so horribly offensive as in the case of blackface, they WILL be punished socially, which is probably the worst sort of thing. Publicize the incident, and they are instantly pariahs. I know for ME at least, there is no way in hell I would want to associate with someone who thought that was ok, and nobody i know would either. That's the good thing about idiots---somehow they are never able to hide that fact. But remember, putting laws or rules, or whatevers in place to punish them will only make it possible for those same idiots to come after you one day. We must not give in to living in a society of opinion. It varies too widely, unfortunately(AND fortunately).

Richard(SNU) · #**132** 11-01-2002, 07:43 PM

Fascinating thread. I just have one question...

Are 70's theme parties where the guys wear "afro" wigs still OK? My
company recently had a "70's" Christmas party (including live disco
cover band) and I had a blast! I'd hate to think I was being racist
without even knowing it. I mean the whole 70's/afro/blaxsploitation
era was such a parody of itself that it has a whole different "energy"
about it compared to the vaudeville/minstrel show/blackface era which
is (rightfully) looked upon with the utmost scorn from the viewpoint
of our current and (hopefully) more enlightened era.

Also I want to go see the movie "Barbershop" but I read somewhere that
black leaders have declared it out of bounds because someone in the
movie made disparaging remarks about MLK and Rosa Parks. If people of
color can disagree among themselves about what's racist and what's
permissible how's a poor white guy like me supposed to know the
difference?

Sorry I guess that's two questions.

AKA_Monet · #**133** 11-02-2002, 11:05 AM

Tommie, baby, I am sure you have seen things that I would not want to even go there to see!

Personally, I think you are trying to make a distinct line between what is YOUR REAL life experiences and what is your real life experience aforementioned. Logically you know the difference, but emotionally, there is a hefty toll you sound like your paying... I have more to tell you so you are going to have to PM me if you want to discuss.

ktsnake: Yes, I see it that way and several other of my fellow compatriots do too... Your statement

Quote:

Better to be offended than dead

That sums up YOUR world perspective and right now, it is extremely limiting because it is BECAUSE people get offended that gets some people dead...

Ev'rbody So in essence, what is offensive? And really, why ARE we so PC now? Because (and personally I don't think it), folks are winding up DEAD over some bullisht!!! It was bullisht thinking, feeling and believe that caused some lunatic to pile drive planes into buildings... It's the actions that humans do that dictate the reasons behind our legislation, social rule--what-ever...

Cloud9 Your point has validity (IMO). How does one remove the emotion when judging these boys case? 1), the judge would be someone who agrees with their actions or 2) a jury of their peers makes sound and objective judgement. You say that these boys will suffer socially--I am sorry, but I cannot buy that. They weren't suffering socially when they did it until they were caught--it's like blabbing around telling ethnic jokes until someone of that ethnic group steps in and questions why it's being said in that manner. Makes it difficult for comedians unless they clown their own folks...

Richard(SNU) PM me too or else this message will be too long...

Ev'rbody again If the definition of racism has been discussed before on another thread, let's agree not to go there again. However, most persons of African descent who live in America when they first hear about an action against them, they get angry and defensive. And all that comes to mind is the word "racism"--as a concept of institutionalized enslavement. And honestly, fear. Because, how long is it when someone shows up wearing white robes and hoods? That is what at least goes in several young peoples' minds. My mind is different. So my humble, personal take will be unreflective of the populace... Something I acquired during my search for the Spirit...

Optimist Prime · #**134** 11-03-2002, 12:27 AM

sometimes the only way to educate people is to offend them

Trust me on this one, I piss lots of people off.

Kevin · #**135** 11-03-2002, 12:51 AM

I agree with you Optimist (shocker

) but I'd also say that there are certain degrees of being offensive.