Election Day Thread

[DubaiSis]

I think the Puerto Rico thing is really interesting, and I'm a supporter. But I can see requiring them to have a higher level of English fluency and literacy first. Apparently this has been a common requirement in the past and might help sway certain constituencies who would be vehemently opposed.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I think the Puerto Rico thing is really interesting, and I'm a supporter. But I can see requiring them to have a higher level of English fluency and literacy first. Apparently this has been a common requirement in the past and might help sway certain constituencies who would be vehemently opposed.

Actually English is already required to be taught in the schools in Puerto Rico. And honestly, I don't see why a higher level of fluency and literacy would be required, and just saying that it was in the past isn't a good enough reason to me.

That being said, I'm really surprised the whole PR thing isn't making more waves. I'm also not sure where I stand on it myself being a Puerto Rican.
*shrugs* Not like it matters until they submit a formal request to the Congress requesting statehood, and I'm doubtful that will happen.

[lovespink88]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I'm also not sure where I stand on it myself being a Puerto Rican.
*shrugs*

SAMESIES!

I know I definitely don't want independence. I'm don't think that would work out too well. But I'm torn between statehood and "free associated state" or whatever the official term is. Mainly cause I don't know 100% of what the latter means and I haven't had time to read up on it

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I'm also not sure where I stand on it myself being a Puerto Rican.
*shrugs*

Originally Posted by lovespink88

SAMESIES!

I just learned something. How have I missed knowing this about y'all?

[lovespink88]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I just learned something. How have I missed knowing this about y'all?

I'm technically only half--other half Polish.

ETA: I do feel stronger ties to my Puerto Rican heritage than Polish, however. I have been to the island roughly 15 times (we have family there) and have been generally surrounded to more Puerto Rican customs and such, throughout my life.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by lovespink88

SAMESIES!

I know I definitely don't want independence. I'm don't think that would work out too well. But I'm torn between statehood and "free associated state" or whatever the official term is. Mainly cause I don't know 100% of what the latter means and I haven't had time to read up on it

Thinking on it a bit, I think I now know where I stand. I don't want either statehood or complete independence. I would prefer something like teh Compact of Free Association that several small states in the Pacific have with the USA. I'm afraid if we become a state, we will lose our sense of national identity. On the other hand, if we become independent, I'm afraid all the sacrifice and good done for the US by Puerto Ricans will be forgotten by both sides. *shrugs*

[justgo_withit]

The states seceding topic reminds me of this: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/fr...audits-america

In which The Daily Show audits America. (Note that there is some pottymouthedness involved)

[AGDee]

The petition thing is ridiculous because Michigan is one of the states that has a petition and we were a BLUE state. When you look at the actual petitions, there are people from all these different states signing them. Yet, when you read articles about it, it sounds like the states themselves are asking for it, not random people who are making up silly petitions on whitehouse.gov.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Also, virtually all of the reddest states take more money than they give to the federal government. The red states, as a whole, would be a much poorer nation if they seceded.

[GeorgiaGreek]

It was my understanding that nobody was making a big deal about the Puerto Rico thing because 1. So many voters didn't even select any option on the question 2. The incumbent mayor who was pro-statehood was not reelected in favor of another mayor who is not as big on the statehood issue. There was also something about Texas and California losing representation (I am bad with politics but I try; I think it was in the House of Reps but there might have been something about the electoral college too) if PR became a state, so other states might not be so gung-ho about it

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaGreek

It was my understanding that nobody was making a big deal about the Puerto Rico thing because 1. So many voters didn't even select any option on the question 2. The incumbent mayor who was pro-statehood was not reelected in favor of another mayor who is not as big on the statehood issue.

I hadn't heard/read that about those not selecting an option. But I think you mean governor rather than mayor.

There was also something about Texas and California losing representation (I am bad with politics but I try; I think it was in the House of Reps but there might have been something about the electoral college too) if PR became a state, so other states might not be so gung-ho about it

That's only because Congress has set the membership of the House at 435. Congress can change that, as they did when Alaska and Hawaii were admitted. (But then they changed it back after the 1960 Census.)

As for the Electoral College, the number of electors each state gets is the total number of members they have in Congress (2 senators + ___ representatives) so that also turns on the 435 representatives number set by Congress.

[GeorgiaGreek]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I hadn't heard/read that about those not selecting an option. But I think you mean governor rather than mayor.

Oof, sorry, brain fart on that one. I think I had the word "majority" bouncing around in my head and it came out on the keyboard. I know Puerto Rico isn't a city

[AOII Angel]

Of course, but then again, we were founded on the principal of no taxation without representation. If the people of Puerto Rico want statehood, they should be allowed at least a debate about the topic. I feel the same about DC.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Of course, but then again, we were founded on the principal of no taxation without representation. If the people of Puerto Rico want statehood, they should be allowed at least a debate about the topic. I feel the same about DC.

IIRC Puerto Rico does not pay federal income taxes, although they do pay local taxes.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Of course, but then again, we were founded on the principal of no taxation without representation. If the people of Puerto Rico want statehood, they should be allowed at least a debate about the topic. I feel the same about DC.

Actually it's DC who gets hosed in a lot of ways when it comes to lack of representation. But they at least do get a say in who the Chief Executive is.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The SNP (Scottish National Party), which has always campaigned for Scottish independence and pledged to hold a referendum on the matter, won a majority in the Scottish Parliament in the last election. (Prior to that, since 2007, it was a minority government.) Last month, British PM David Cameron and Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond signed an agreement (the "Edinburgh Agreement") providing a legal framework under which the referendum will be held. I forgot with my earlier post that it provides that a single question, the exact wording of which will be decided by the Scottish Parliament, will be put to the electorate. The idea of the single question, as opposed to multiple questions as were used in PR, is to provide a clear answer -- "a fair test and decisive expression of the views of people in Scotland and a result that everyone will respect."

The SNP says it is in favor of retaining the monarchy (I wonder whether Elizabeth II would suddenly become Elizabeth I north of the border, though) and of Scotland joining the Commonwealth.

The referendum is scheduled to be held in the Fall of 2014.

Polls have tended to show that more Scots oppose independence than support it. But Sean Connery will, no doubt, vote for independence.

Interesting. I didn't know all of that. It's funny though, because a friend of mine who is a massive Anglophile calls the SNP "Labour with a Scottish accent."

Originally Posted by agzg

IIRC Puerto Rico does not pay federal income taxes, although they do pay local taxes.

They also do pay federal payroll taxes, and federal employees also pay federal income tax IIRC.