Lack of Ethnic Diversity in Bama's sororities worry future rushee

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I understand but is that really so different from saying you don't know why African-American women pursue rush at any school? Do outsiders really know the odds or are they just going based on appearances and assumptions?

I was thinking about this recently. There are probably some Af. Am. girls who grew up in areas where the vast majority of girls in the neighborhood (white) went off to Bama/Ole Miss and pledged sororities. I'm pretty sure there are some who assume that they will do the same with no problems (because all your classmates have done so.) Just by nature of where they grew up, they have no reason to think that their experience will be any different.

I dunno, I never really know how to respond to this topic (I went Greek at a school that is ENTIRELY different from Bama.) I considered attending LSU at one point (but changed my mind senior year for a number of reasons) but I do sometimes think about the fact that if I had chosen LSU, there is a very good chance that I wouldn't be Greek right now (because "OMG TEH BLACKNESSS!!11")

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I understand but is that really so different from saying you don't know why African-American women pursue rush at any school? Do outsiders really know the odds or are they just going based on appearances and assumptions? Also something to consider, with a relatively small percentage of nonwhites rushing at every school, what is the probability that the nonwhites will be among those who receive bids?

This can also be applied to nonBlacks and the NPHC, although the relatively few nonBlacks who pursue the NPHC are often doing so because they have been attending programs and their NPHC aspirations have somehow been encouraged just as some Blacks' aspirations have been encouraged. That tends to mean that there would have to be something about the aspirant's qualifications or personality that gets the aspirant rejected.

I think "outsiders" who really do their research--beyond looking at chapter websites--do know the odds. The research can be done in many different ways. I know that when I was looking, I spoke to a number of friends and family members who attended the SEC school on my shortlist who were very honest about their experiences in NPC rush.

My hometown is a feeder for about 4 SEC schools with major Greek systems (Bama among them). Even though I grew up with a lot of young women who ended up pledging at these schools I was pretty sure, even at the age of 18, that I wouldn't have the same pick of chapters that they did. This was before the Internet, so it amazes me now that there are any black women who'd rush at a school like that without some idea that they may be released early. (I even had the recs and hometown support, which a lot of these women may not have!)

There's always a story about one or two black women who get bids at schools with predominantly white Greek systems...I wonder what happens after the newstrucks go away. Do they thrive in their chapters, taking leadership positions? Are they active after college?

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I dunno, I never really know how to respond to this topic (I went Greek at a school that is ENTIRELY different from Bama.) I considered attending LSU at one point (but changed my mind senior year for a number of reasons) but I do sometimes think about the fact that if I had chosen LSU, there is a very good chance that I wouldn't be Greek right now (because "OMG TEH BLACKNESSS!!11")

Actually, there have been some in the NPC groups at LSU. LSU may be SEC but it's also Louisiana and it isn't exactly the same....from one cadienne's point of view....

[DubaiSis]

When you look at bid day pictures from around the US you can see a lot of diversity. One recent set of bid day pictures showed a black girl in 3 of the 4 chapters (relatively small, so nearly 10% of the pledge classes). If this was something that was really important to a girl of color, I think she might consider a more inclusive university. Now, do you pick where to get your undergraduate degree based on how open the sororities are to diversity? Man, I hope not. But I wonder if it's indicative of the campus culture at large. And then I think it's a valid consideration. This isn't separate but equal - there are a lot of very good schools out there that have 21st century thinking about race.

[Oneperson]

When one of the "big, old" sororities at UA pledges a black woman, then the rest of them will. Nobody wants to be the first. You can point out that a certain sorority did it in 2002, but that was a deal brokered by the Machine.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

When you look at bid day pictures from around the US you can see a lot of diversity. One recent set of bid day pictures showed a black woman in 3 of the 4 chapters (relatively small, so nearly 10% of the pledge classes). If this was something that was really important to a racial and ethnic minority woman, I think she might consider a more inclusive university.

No, one or a couple of sprinkles of nonwhite in a few recruitment photos is not diversity.

It isn't the end of the world that it isn't diversity. Segregation by force and by choice have always existed and will continue to exist. I just really want people to stop pretending that one or a couple of (insert group of people) in a few of the hundreds of chapters is what diversity is.

[DubaiSis]

It is when it's proportional to the student population.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, one or a couple of sprinkles of nonwhite in a few recruitment photos is not diversity.

It isn't the end of the world that it isn't diversity. Segregation by force and by choice have always existed and will continue to exist. I just really want people to stop pretending that one or a couple of (insert group of people) in a few of the hundreds of chapters is what diversity is.

The mindset (I suppose) is that there "should" be none.

So to have just one or two is considered a HUGE LEAP FORWARD by some people.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, one or a couple of sprinkles of nonwhite in a few recruitment photos is not diversity.

It isn't the end of the world that it isn't diversity. Segregation by force and by choice have always existed and will continue to exist. I just really want people to stop pretending that one or a couple of (insert group of people) in a few of the hundreds of chapters is what diversity is.

That's why I said "real research," and not just looking at a chapter's website pictures on Bid Day or formals. Photos at Bid Day and Formals are NOT representative of what an NPC chapter is really like because virtually everyone comes out and is super-duper happy.

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Now, do you pick where to get your undergraduate degree based on how open the sororities are to diversity? Man, I hope not. But I wonder if it's indicative of the campus culture at large. And then I think it's a valid consideration. This isn't separate but equal - there are a lot of very good schools out there that have 21st century thinking about race.

Based on my experiences, the *top* schools do have truly integrated Greek systems. Part of it is that those schools are in areas of the country where a mixed Greek system is more tolerated, while another part of it is that schools like that attract people from all over the country and the world.

The diversity in a Greek system can show, to some extent, what a campus's culture is like. I grew up in a conservative small town and I knew I needed a much more progressive culture when I went to college. I didn't even apply to a school that didn't have top-notch academics, so it wasn't as if I was prioritizing student life above academic life. Was there real integration based on class and race and not just do-gooder liberalism? Were students of different sexual orientations accepted and not merely tolerated? If any of those questions, among others, had been "no," I didn't give that school a second chance.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

It is when it's proportional to the student population.

Still not. Diversity is never just about sprinkles of (insert population minority).

But, I would love to see the data on the one or two nonwhites in comparison to 1) the total student population and 2) the total members in NPC chapters.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Still not. Diversity is never just about sprinkles of (insert population minority).

But, I would love to see the data on the one or two nonwhites in comparison to 1) the total student population and 2) the total members in NPC chapters.

I'd like to see the retention rate for non-white students in NPC chapters and if it reflects the overall retention rate. Recruitment is one thing--can you keep the students there after the news cameras have gone away?

My experience has been that black women who join NPC chapters stay active as alumnae at a higher rate than their white counterparts. I'm sure a lot of it is the expectation, borne from being around NPHC folks, that membership is for life. But is this true across the board? I tend to hang out around more philanthropically-minded folks so perhaps my experience is skewed.

[ComradesTrue]

DISCLAIMER: The following is only anecdotal. In no way would I ever imply or conclude that this one experience should be represented as "How It Is."

I attend college in the early 90s. My school had about 6000 undergraduates, of which >90% were classified as white/caucasian. Of those undergraduates, about 55% were female, and of those 55% approx 40% joined NPC groups. There were 2 visible NPHC groups, but I believe that the members were part of a city-chapter and not one through the university. Please forgive me if I am mixing up terminology with that. There were about 3-5 members in each.

When I was a freshmen, we did have an African American senior in my chapter, and she served on the exec board, lived in the house, and gave 100% to the chapter even through that senior year. According to her, she was the only African American who participated in NPC rush her entire 4 years. For the following 3 years that I was a member, no other African American participated in NPC rush.

Sadly, I suppose we qualify for that "sprinkle" title, but for (at least) 7 years she was the only one. While we weren't out proclaiming any false-sense of "diversity" it also couldn't help but be noticed by everyone. We were proud that she was in our chapter- not because she was black, but because she was just sheer awesome.

Since she was quite a few years older, and our chapters were 140ish members, I did not know her well enough to stay in touch after her graduation. However, since I recently saw her name on a LOST list, I guess that I can conclude she isn't overly involved as an alumna.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Blondie93

DISCLAIMER: The following is only anecdotal. In no way would I ever imply or conclude that this one experience should be represented as "How It Is."

I attend college in the early 90s. My school had about 6000 undergraduates, of which >90% were classified as white/caucasian. Of those undergraduates, about 55% were female, and of those 55% approx 40% joined NPC groups. There were 2 visible NPHC groups, but I believe that the members were part of a city-chapter and not one through the university. Please forgive me if I am mixing up terminology with that. There were about 3-5 members in each.

When I was a freshmen, we did have an African American senior in my chapter, and she served on the exec board, lived in the house, and gave 100% to the chapter even through that senior year. According to her, she was the only African American who participated in NPC rush her entire 4 years. For the following 3 years that I was a member, no other African American participated in NPC rush.

Sadly, I suppose we qualify for that "sprinkle" title, but for (at least) 7 years she was the only one. While we weren't out proclaiming any false-sense of "diversity" it also couldn't help but be noticed by everyone. We were proud that she was in our chapter- not because she was black, but because she was just sheer awesome.

Since she was quite a few years older, and our chapters were 140ish members, I did not know her well enough to stay in touch after her graduation. However, since I recently saw her name on a LOST list, I guess that I can conclude she isn't overly involved as an alumna.

This post is cool beans.

"Diversity" is such a catch word that many people and groups use it to mean "sprinkle." It's essentially a way of saying "we have a couple of you people so SHUT UP ABOUT IT ALREADY." LOL.

I'm not saying there HAS to be diversity for GLOs and other groups with this type of membership criteria. I am saying two things: (1) the minorities who choose to pursue membership in such groups should know that it may or may not be a positive experience; and (2) GLOs that are majority white should stop acting as though it is mere coincidence that they remain predominantly white. Afterall, GLOs that are majority nonwhite don't have the privilege of ignoring history, programs, and group dynamics that keep us majority nonwhite even if it is intentional. Whiteness isn't neutral and void of race and ethnicity meanwhile nonwhiteness is filled with subjective nonwhitesnessnessness.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'd like to see the retention rate for non-white students in NPC chapters and if it reflects the overall retention rate. Recruitment is one thing--can you keep the students there after the news cameras have gone away?

My experience has been that black women who join NPC chapters stay active as alumnae at a higher rate than their white counterparts. I'm sure a lot of it is the expectation, borne from being around NPHC folks, that membership is for life. But is this true across the board? I tend to hang out around more philanthropically-minded folks so perhaps my experience is skewed.

I find that to be true for the black NPC alumnae that I know, as well.

[Low C Sharp]

GLOs that are majority white should stop acting as though it is mere coincidence that they remain predominantly white.

Correct, and you can substitute almost any century-old institution for "GLOs," including universities, employers, etc. We're talking about groups that had explicit whites-only clauses as recently as a generation ago. Taking that kind of rule off the books rarely brings about integration. Either the institution decides that it actually wants to be diverse, in which case it does outreach and addresses the issue head-on (many universities have done this successfully), or it decides that staying all-white is fine, in which case doing nothing will have roughly the same effect that the whites-only clause did.