balanced man vs traditional

[traditionalSPE2]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

Do you realize that when you're extended a bid in the BMP and become a member, you go through Sigma Ritual which is the equivalent of your pledge of intents. As the VP of Member Development of my chapter, I make sure that everyone earns their way into the heart of the Fraternity. No one is just going through the motions--not in my chapter. You didn't even get our 12 founding fathers right, so don't begin to tell anyone that BMP chapters don't learn the history. Also, although I didn't have a pledge class, I did have a Rush class and I depend on these guys more than anything. We've been through everything together. There are 7 of us left because the BMP actually weeded the other 11 out. Still, I know all of my active Brothers and a ton of alumni really, really well. Another thing, you said pledging turns the guys into better men. That right there is 100% the goal of THE BALANCED MAN PROGRAM. I've talked to guys from pledge model chapters and most of them do not live up to SigEp values. I will not discredit your pledging experience and I actually do wish I could have experienced pledging.

We don't just coast through the BMP. There are things we actually have to do just like pledges.

No BMP inductees do not go through full ritual until they are older and that is completely untrue. BMP is turning a great social fraternity into an academic honors society which is NOT what a fraternity is supposed to be. Go to any school where SPE has been forced to become balanced man and they are a bottom tiered no matter where you look. I have been to schools where they are BMP and NO-ONE takes them seriously. It usually starts with "they are wimps, they have pledging, no one takes them seriously on campus, give bids to everyone, etc." The only chapters that are still relevant and produce the wealthiest and most successful alumni are those that are (or were) traditional chapters.

You must have some period of mental and physical anguish to bring men together and respect each other. Think of it as a bit like boot camp where you turn civilians into men who would take a bullet for each other in a second. It sucks for a few weeks but after it is done you will never be the same. Some of the activities are what would today be considered "hazing" but this is still needed to build better men. Yeah so maybe some of us were "hazed" but so what? It was hazing and pledging that turned us into better men. You can't just give someone their letters immediately without them proving they are worthy of them.

The same can't be said for BMP there is no real obstacle to becoming a brother. You said you have met brothers from pledging chapters who dont live up to the fraternity's values. Maybe our interpretation of the founding principles of the fraternity are different then yours. In our eyes in order to build virtue, diligence, and "brotherly love" you all must suffer and go through hell together before you can really really live up to these principles (particularly the latter).

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by traditionalSPE2

No BMP inductees do not go through full ritual until they are older and that is completely untrue. BMP is turning a great social fraternity into an academic honors society which is NOT what a fraternity is supposed to be. Go to any school where SPE has been forced to become balanced man and they are a bottom tiered no matter where you look. I have been to schools where they are BMP and NO-ONE takes them seriously. It usually starts with "they are wimps, they have pledging, no one takes them seriously on campus, give bids to everyone, etc." The only chapters that are still relevant and produce the wealthiest and most successful alumni are those that are (or were) traditional chapters.

You must have some period of mental and physical anguish to bring men together and respect each other. Think of it as a bit like boot camp where you turn civilians into men who would take a bullet for each other in a second. It sucks for a few weeks but after it is done you will never be the same. Some of the activities are what would today be considered "hazing" but this is still needed to build better men. Yeah so maybe some of us were "hazed" but so what? It was hazing and pledging that turned us into better men. You can't just give someone their letters immediately without them proving they are worthy of them.

The same can't be said for BMP there is no real obstacle to becoming a brother. You said you have met brothers from pledging chapters who dont live up to the fraternity's values. Maybe our interpretation of the founding principles of the fraternity are different then yours. In our eyes in order to build virtue, diligence, and "brotherly love" you all must suffer and go through hell together before you can really really live up to these principles (particularly the latter).

It was the lack of hazing that turned all of my Brothers into better men. But everyone is different. And maybe our principles are interpreted different. But I feel that VDBL should be encouraged and fostered within each Brother, not forced. To me, that's how it's truly understood. And it took me 9 weeks to earn my letters. It isn't like I just walked in the door, got my letters, and then sat around coasting on through. Like I said before, I actually had to do stuff to climb my way through the BMP.

The thing is that I've seen pledge model and BMP chapters succeed and fail. That's why I feel the way I do. It's not like I'm just sitting on one side of the fence. Of course I'm a bit biased, but it's truly what I feel.

Also, why gauge the success of a chapter by how much money the alumni make? That's stupid. I was just at one of my alum's $3mil lake house this weekend. So what?

"No BMP inductees do not go through full ritual until they are older and that is completely untrue."
I don't know what you're saying with this sentence. Double negatives don't make sense.
But I read the Ritual guide from a pledge model chapter and it was the exact same Ritual I have been through.

And I'm sure BMP chapters are not bottom tiered everywhere. We're top tier at my school while the chapters that pledge around me are all on their way to being shut down because they're not able to recruit members. Hell, I can brag to you about my BMP chapter for days and I'm sure you can brag about your pledging chapter just the same.

This argument is never going to get anywhere. Ever.

[TNK274]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

It was the lack of hazing that turned all of my Brothers into better men. But everyone is different. And maybe our principles are interpreted different. But I feel that VDBL should be encouraged and fostered within each Brother, not forced. To me, that's how it's truly understood. And it took me 9 weeks to earn my letters. It isn't like I just walked in the door, got my letters, and then sat around coasting on through. Like I said before, I actually had to do stuff to climb my way through the BMP.

The thing is that I've seen pledge model and BMP chapters succeed and fail. That's why I feel the way I do. It's not like I'm just sitting on one side of the fence. Of course I'm a bit biased, but it's truly what I feel.

Also, why gauge the success of a chapter by how much money the alumni make? That's stupid. I was just at one of my alum's $3mil lake house this weekend. So what?

"No BMP inductees do not go through full ritual until they are older and that is completely untrue."
I don't know what you're saying with this sentence. Double negatives don't make sense.
But I read the Ritual guide from a pledge model chapter and it was the exact same Ritual I have been through.

And I'm sure BMP chapters are not bottom tiered everywhere. We're top tier at my school while the chapters that pledge around me are all on their way to being shut down because they're not able to recruit members. Hell, I can brag to you about my BMP chapter for days and I'm sure you can brag about your pledging chapter just the same.

This argument is never going to get anywhere. Ever.

As soon as we put guys through Sigma they get the letters. Now that I've been around for I while I really think that idea sucks, but that's the way they've always done it here...Our alums' interpretation of the BMP is that you get full priviledges from day aside from Ritual Knowledge and getting to wear the Founder's Badge.

[pshsx1]

In my chapter, we don't receive our letters until Phi Rite of Passage. It doesn't make sense to wear something if you don't know what it means, you know? They can't wear the Founders' Badge until Epsilon Rite.

I'm glad my chapter does it this way. It really builds a respect for the letters and the Fraternity. Since my chapter was very pledgey all the way into the beginning of this decade, the alumni totally agree with it. Pledging definitely has its perks, so we kind of adopt of few of them.

The BMP is perfect on paper but I think it's up to each chapter to take it, make it their own, and run with whatever works.

[TNK274]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

In my chapter, we don't receive our letters until Phi Rite of Passage. It doesn't make sense to wear something if you don't know what it means, you know? They can't wear the Founders' Badge until Epsilon Rite.

I'm glad my chapter does it this way. It really builds a respect for the letters and the Fraternity. Since my chapter was very pledgey all the way into the beginning of this decade, the alumni totally agree with it. Pledging definitely has its perks, so we kind of adopt of few of them.

The BMP is perfect on paper but I think it's up to each chapter to take it, make it their own, and run with whatever works.

Yeah we don't let our guys wear the badge until they have been through Epsilon either. I'm going through sometime here in the next few weeks so I'm really excited about it. I would like to revamp our Bro Dev a bit, have them wait til Phi to get letters so maybe they would feel the same way you know?...we'll see how that goes though, some of the older bros are stubborn and new ideas bounce right off of them :/

[ex"pat"sigep]

I was the last traditional pledge class of my chapter, the week and all. I have seen first hand the kind of guys you get from both systems and the traditional guys are brothers where as the newer BM guys are more like buddies. I know very few of their names, they arn't even unified within their own pledge class if you can even call it that anymore, and try to start problems with every older brother. we weren't forced to respect and revere the older brothers during pledging, we were shown how hard it was for them to get to where they are now and we came into that respect and reverence in our own time. sure getting hazed sucked but i would go back to being a pledge in a heart beat because it was a blast, and every single traditional brother in my chapter would do the same. On Wednesday night you hear that alot (for those "balanced men" out there wednesday night will change your life). But people don't get a wednesday night, or know the feeling the last morning when you have your induction ceremony. those are feelings that no

[ex"pat"sigep]

balanced man chapter will ever be able to imitate

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ex"pat"sigep

I was the last traditional pledge class of my chapter, the week and all. I have seen first hand the kind of guys you get from both systems and the traditional guys are brothers where as the newer BM guys are more like buddies. I know very few of their names, they arn't even unified within their own pledge class if you can even call it that anymore, and try to start problems with every older brother. we weren't forced to respect and revere the older brothers during pledging, we were shown how hard it was for them to get to where they are now and we came into that respect and reverence in our own time. sure getting hazed sucked but i would go back to being a pledge in a heart beat because it was a blast, and every single traditional brother in my chapter would do the same. On Wednesday night you hear that alot (for those "balanced men" out there wednesday night will change your life). But people don't get a wednesday night, or know the feeling the last morning when you have your induction ceremony. those are feelings that no

Originally Posted by ex"pat"sigep

balanced man chapter will ever be able to imitate

QFP just in case.

[vdblove]

I'm from a BMP chapter but I never really got the BMP experience. We had pledging, we had distinguishable pledge classes, it wasn't self-paced, everyone moved through everything at the same time.

We were challenged every day for a good 10 weeks, pushed both physically and mentally to the limit, expected to know everyone in the chapter by first and last name and also random bits of information and we sure as hell had to know our pledge class. In the end, I felt unbelievably close to my brothers, and it was a natural bond.

I've met a few traditional based dudes who are quick to judge when I mention I'm BMP but just keep in mind that not all BMP chapters run verbatim the BMP program. I know for one my chapter not only prioritizes quality of new member over quantity of members, but makes sure the pledge class grows as individuals and at the same time as a cohesive unit.

It shouldn't be about BMP chapters vs. Traditionals, or Pledging vs. Non-Pledging, but rather, Sig Ep vs. everything else.

vdbl

[ParExcellence]

I love how this argument has evolved over the years. Of course the traditional guys are going to advocate pledge model chapters and the BMP guys will want a BMP chapter. But like vdblove says, we're all SigEps.

However, I will say that there is a reason so many chapters have moved towards the BMP system. It's because it works in most cases and gives the fraternity a better image in the eyes of universities. I can also see the benefits of a pledge model as well, like strong bonds and shared adversity.

On the issue of letting just anyone in, it can be a problem in any case. Simply put, it all comes down to the standards of the chapter. Pledge model chapters can let subpar guys in just as BMP chapters can. It's pointless to argue one way or the other.

Lastly, I can see how you earn your letters in a pledge model chapter for sure. But, I am confused when people say that BMP brothers don't earn their letters. It took me over a year to know our full ritual, and I worked my ass off for it. I had to prove myself worthy of it, just as pledges do.

Just remember there are great SigEps in pledge model chapters as well as BMP chapters.

[SPETJS]

I'm in a BMS chapter, as well as the VP Recruitment. We don't earn our letters because as soon as we accept our bid card we get a shirt. Which demeans the fraternity. I've looked at past VPs recruiting classes and do see why it is Sigma Phi Everyone. We have guys that join because our recruiters are just too good and convince them to, and then they don't do anything in the chapter. That is detrimental to the fraternity. A pledge process would weed them out, because after they don't come to anything, we could black ball them.

I think a pledge model would solve many of our chapters commitment problems, and am not a huge fan of the BMP. Leadership is great, but half the stuff they make us do is worthless. We are a fraternity.

[ABM07]

My brother's sig ep chapter had its charter revoked because they didn't support the balanced man program. They had highest GPA and highest recruitment on campus even with the pledge model. Success can happen without Balance Man

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by SPETJS

I'm in a BMS chapter, as well as the VP Recruitment. We don't earn our letters because as soon as we accept our bid card we get a shirt. Which demeans the fraternity. I've looked at past VPs recruiting classes and do see why it is Sigma Phi Everyone. We have guys that join because our recruiters are just too good and convince them to, and then they don't do anything in the chapter. That is detrimental to the fraternity. A pledge process would weed them out, because after they don't come to anything, we could black ball them.

I think a pledge model would solve many of our chapters commitment problems, and am not a huge fan of the BMP. Leadership is great, but half the stuff they make us do is worthless. We are a fraternity.

If you don't like your chapter, make some changes or quit. Stop bitching.

Originally Posted by ABM07

My brother's sig ep chapter had its charter revoked because they didn't support the balanced man program. They had highest GPA and highest recruitment on campus even with the pledge model. Success can happen without Balance Man

Stop instigating.

[rr23482]

I just wanted to post this because I think i'm speaking for a lot of balanced man chapters out there. We were forced to go balanced man in the early 2000's due to hazing. Since then we have still done pledgeship every year with a little bit of BM added in. Sure, we've lost some tradition since getting caught, but have found a good balance between hazing and development. We still recruit well and have a great brotherhood and it would be slander to say that what we currently put our pledges through is easy. Not every BM chapter actually does balanced man. I know of many chapters who still do pledgeship behind the curtains that BM provides, so to say that BM chapters are less respectable is outrageous.