A totally honest thread...from long long ago

[LadyLonghorn]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

I was hanging with an alum of a UT sorority (won't say which one) who said that Jewish PNMs who don't wish to join the 2 traditionally Jewish sororities at Texas often wear cross necklaces during recruitment to ensure that the members of the other GLOs know they are looking to join there.

Hmmmm, well I am an active who has now been through several recruitments and have never heard this. So if women really are doing it, the message isn't getting through. It makes me really sad to hear that someone would even consider doing this, and makes me even sadder that a rumor like this would be perpetuated even if true.

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

This same woman also confirmed that the two Jewish sororities are (to her knowledge obviously) still 100% Jewish at UT.

As far as I know, this is indeed true. But I am sure you already know that many Jewish women come into recruitment with their heart set on one of those particular houses since there is a definite tier level even in that niche. Suiciding and dropping out of recruitment because you're not invited back to the "top tier" historically Jewish house is far from infrequent.

It also is important to note that while the historically Jewish houses are still 100% Jewish members, the other sororities on campus are far from being 100% non-Jewish.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by LadyLonghorn

Hmmmm, well I am an active who has now been through several recruitments and have never heard this. So if women really are doing it, the message isn't getting through. It makes me really sad to hear that someone would even consider doing this, and makes me even sadder that a rumor like this would be perpetuated even if true.



As far as I know, this is indeed true. But I am sure you already know that many Jewish women come into recruitment with their heart set on one of those particular houses since there is a definite tier level even in that niche. Suiciding and dropping out of recruitment because you're not invited back to the "top tier" historically Jewish house is far from infrequent.

It also is important to note that while the historically Jewish houses are still 100% Jewish members, the other sororities on campus are far from being 100% non-Jewish.

Lady Longhorn, honestly I'm so glad you responded to my post. The alum's comments from Thursday night honestly threw me for a complete loop, especially because this had already been discussed on GC recently. I don't know what group you're in - I still don't want to say what group the person I met was in, but she graduated in 2007 and was highly involved in her chapter's recruitment, so I had no reason to disbelieve what she said. Things she said in other regards were definitely accurate, in terms of insider info, tiers, recent Greek life developments at UT, etc... it's just odd to me that this would be the case.

Yes, I'm aware of the tiers with the Jewish sororities at UT... I have a few friends who are alums of one of the groups and it's striking to me that all their little sisters seem to have joined the "top" group... I think the lower tier group is really having a struggle over whether it wants to remain 100% Jewish or not... although, I actually think that they've made their bed and decided to lay in it on that one at this point.

[ellebud]

I remember the thread from the girl who was a pnm at UT. There were FAR more layers to this young woman's story. She, while Jewish, referred to Jews as "you" Jews. (I don't remember if this was in a thread or a private message.) At a very basic level she was searching not to find a home but to reinvent herself with a new identity. I also find it hard to believe that young women who want to signal that they want to be available to all types of sororities would wear a cross (if Jewish) or a Star of David (if Christian). When one wants to be available to all houses (if there is open religious bidding) there are ways to let people know, as opposed to wearing a treasured symbol of a religion (Christian or Jewish) as a sort of "Hey, I'm available!" sign. (I am aware that the signal, "Hey I'm Jewish/Christian and I want you to know!" is fine, but then a pnm isn't taking another's religious identity as a frivolity.)

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by ellebud

I remember the thread from the girl who was a pnm at UT. There were FAR more layers to this young woman's story. She, while Jewish, referred to Jews as "you" Jews. (I don't remember if this was in a thread or a private message.) At a very basic level she was searching not to find a home but to reinvent herself with a new identity. I also find it hard to believe that young women who want to signal that they want to be available to all types of sororities would wear a cross (if Jewish) or a Star of David (if Christian). When one wants to be available to all houses (if there is open religious bidding) there are ways to let people know, as opposed to wearing a treasured symbol of a religion (Christian or Jewish) as a sort of "Hey, I'm available!" sign. (I am aware that the signal, "Hey I'm Jewish/Christian and I want you to know!" is fine, but then a pnm isn't taking another's religious identity as a frivolity.)

Totally agreed about the earlier UT thread where the PNM was saying some really inappropriate things. That's why I haven't bothered to look up that thread to help her or anything.

I can't emphasize enough that I have no first-hand knowledge of this situation at UT myself. I was totally floored by the woman who told me this in the first place and didn't know whether to believe it. Lady Longhorn says she's never heard it so maybe it's totally false. I just can't imagine where it even came from though, if there's nothing to it.

The only explanation I could think of is that the top tier Jewish sorority at UT, as Lady Longhorn notes, is much sought-after, and in a tight timed situation, chapters might cut a Jewish woman if they weren't sure she was interesting in joining them, thinking she was only pursuing the Jewish orgs. But again, as you said, there seem to be other ways to signal that besides wearing a symbol of a religion that's not yours.

I don't mean to cause controversy, I was just shocked to have this paraded in front of me in the 21st century and thought it was interesting/relevant to this thread - whether true or not.

[ellebud]

I will say that when I rushed...in the last millenium...I HEARD that Texas had "Jewish Rush", which at that time meant (I guess) that Jews rushed separately. And in my time it might have been the way my rush could have been construed, although my school had only one Jewish house. We might as well have rushed separately since with the exception of one young women, who sort of hemmed and hawed as to whether she was Jewish, because we really didn't (AT THAT TIME) have options.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by ellebud

I will say that when I rushed...in the last millenium...I HEARD that Texas had "Jewish Rush", which at that time meant (I guess) that Jews rushed separately. And in my time it might have been the way my rush could have been construed, although my school had only one Jewish house. We might as well have rushed separately since with the exception of one young women, who sort of hemmed and hawed as to whether she was Jewish, because we really didn't (AT THAT TIME) have options.

Very interesting, I'd never heard of that.

[LadyLonghorn]

The PNM in that other thread had a whole lot of other issues. I think the mods deleted it because it got ugly.

I am still trying to wrap my mind around someone wearing a blatant and revered symbol of another religion as some sort of secret message during recruitment. I can understand the fear of being dropped because a group assumes you will want a specific house when you want to keep an open mind, but it seems so extreme to do something like this. I'm not saying it doesn't happen ever (because, let's face it, a lot of weird stuff happens during recruitment!), but I have never heard it mentioned in any recruitment conversations I have had with members of my GLO and my friends in other sororities.

I would really have to second guess a new sister's honesty about everything if she's started out a lifetime relationship doing something like that. I mean, what does she say? "Hey, y'all, I know I was wearing a cross during recruitment, but guess what? Now that I'm a new member, I can tell you I really am Jewish and just faked being Christian so you wouldn't assume I wanted to go XYZ. So I can't go out tonight because it's Shabbat." I just can't fathom it.

[UGAalum94]

The groups that were traditionally Jewish at UGA when I was there did recruitment with everybody else, but since both NPC groups were under official campus total, they both probably had COR events too. (And I think most if not all of the NPC has Jewish members and both "Jewish" groups had some non-Jewish members.)

It wouldn't surprise me if "Jewish Rush" was kind of a mythological name that crept up at UT to describe COR events that happened later in the year that would have been targeted at Jewish friends from home. It sounds bad, but in practice was probably pretty effective.

Lady Longhorn, do you really think that anyone would remember who wore a cross? The whole thing (wearing religion items not from your faith to intentionally mislead) sounds kind of nutty, I agree. But if a PNM was willing to misrepresent her faith to up her recruitment odds, I'm guessing she wasn't particularly devout to being with.

[ellebud]

BTW, no "controversy" felt here. I truly believe in an open honest and respectful discussion about this (and other topics) And in this thread all the above criteria has been, in my humble opinion, met.

[ellebud]

To LadyLonghorn and Breathtesgelatin:

My family and I went to UT for an atheletic event. Did a little sightseeing on campus and around Austin. We really had a wonderful time. One thing that struck us was the friendliness of Austin-ites. Lost? Ask anyone and they'll help. In a restaurant waiting for a table? People strike up conversations...we actually helped some people who were coming to Los Angeles for a vacation. The University was amazing...we drove through it and we very impressed. Went shopping on the Drag...but since we're from SC we didn't buy any Longhorn stuff...lol.

[libelle]

I have not heard of PNMs wearing a cross to appear nonJewish. I am appalled.

But I have heard of members of religious minorities being encouraged to wear a cross or Star of David to signal a chapter's openness during recruitment. For eg an AEPhi at my school wore a cross during recruitment to suggest that Christians could be a member if they wanted to be. I was encouraged to wear my Star of David to signal that we welcomed Jewish members. Not all sororities were so open at my U. back in the 80s.