Obey? Submit? What do you think??

[Conskeeted7]

When a woman decides that she loves and trusts this man enough to marry him and partner with him for the rest of her life, she should be comfortable enough with that man to 'submit' to him. If you are about to get married and think that this man will tell you to do something or be somewhere that will cause you harm or not be in the best interest of your household, why do you feel comfortable marrying him?

In a Christian marriage, it is the husband's responsibility to make sure that his family follows the Lord and lives a holy life. Therefore, the concerns that he has for his wife and family are not random, but instead spiritually inspired. And since the wife in a Christian marriage believes this also, she should understand exactly what her husband is saying and have no problem agreeing to the direction that he gives.

Too many people try to take bits and pieces of the Bible and make them fit into the secular world. Submission is not meant to make sense in a secular marriage, only in a Christian marriage. If you are not Christian and are not marrying a Christian, why question the way that Christian marriages have worked for thousands of years?

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
SC,

Basically, you are wanting to know reason why Christ decided that "man is the head" and that's really a question that only Christ can answer since He is the one who designed it so. We really can't use general, secular reasons and apply them in this situation to explain or justify this.

In the "natural", this probaby does seem illogical - which is why this only works for those couples that are Christian and want to have a marriage as directed by Christ.

Maybe there is a thread of here that talks about this in "general" terms, so to speak. Let me search and see.

You said what I was basically going to say. In Christianity, God the Father God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit make up the Trinity. They are co-equal, but each has their own unique function. God the Son submitted him self to God the Father but it had nothing to do with him thinking less of himself and his role. He just had a different function.

I think that like HK said trying to make this make sense to a non Christian is probably fruitless. To tell the true it didn't make sense to me either when I was a babe in Christ. Only with me growing, studying the Word and really yeilding myself to the holy Spirit did it start to make sense.

[toocute]

Originally posted by toocute
Obey was NOT in my marriage vows and there was never a discussion about it. In fact my church (Baptist) doesn't use the word obey. My preacher did a sermon once (long time ago) about why he didn't use the term obey. I don't remember his exact words but I do remember the words "equal" and "partnership" being used.

My husband and I consult each other before making household decsions. I think SWEETAKA said something about sharing the power. That's what we do and it's all good. Three and a half years and still going.

Well...I'm now married 6 years and three months AND have a toddler and this still holds true. Finances, housework, decsions are done jointly even though I feel I do much more housework than he does . One traditional role I have taken on is Mother. 85 - 90% of CJ's care is me and I'm fine with that. As long as I can have a night with the girls or a quiet night with him playing with his a dad and leaving Mommy alone...I'm cool. CJ is my husband's child but he's MY baby.

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by Conskeeted7


Too many people try to take bits and pieces of the Bible and make them fit into the secular world. Submission is not meant to make sense in a secular marriage, only in a Christian marriage. If you are not Christian and are not marrying a Christian, why question the way that Christian marriages have worked for thousands of years?

Soror, my goal was not to question the *Christian* way of doing things. Since submission is not a uniquely Christian concept and since all Black people are not Christians, my goal was/is to explore the subject from a secular perspective. I continue to think that exploring this matter from a secular perspective is possible since there are those that think that submission makes sense or works best for secular reasons.

SC

[Conskeeted7]

My point is that it if you take something out of context, it isn't going to make the same amount of sense or even work the same.

Society has long placed the image of man as head of household in our heads. However, that doesn't mean that people agree with submission. They are slightly different, but often confused. Some men feel they are head of the house for financial reasons, age, employment status, or other things. It is not always simply because they believe that their wives should be submissive to them in all circumstances, no matter what.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by Conskeeted7
My point is that it if you take something out of context, it isn't going to make the same amount of sense or even work the same.

Society has long placed the image of man as head of household in our heads. However, that doesn't mean that people agree with submission. They are slightly different, but often confused. Some men feel they are head of the house for financial reasons, age, employment status, or other things. It is not always simply because they believe that their wives should be submissive to them in all circumstances, no matter what.

This is very true conskeeted7...its hard to understand biblical concepts in a secular sense....it just won't make sense!

[canuhandleit]

My Pastor says that a man without a head is a freak. When he said this, he was saying that, if a man doesn't have God at the head of his life, he has no head and is a freak. When the word "obey" is used in the context of marriage, it doesn't mean the women has to do everything her husband tell her. i.e. bark like a dog, bring him breakfast in bed everyday, NO! The words obey and submission have been taken out of context so often. Marriage is not a cure for lust or just a practicality, but a picture of the relationship between Christ and the church. If we love Christ, we will submit our lives to Him. We know He loves us and wants only the best for us. Well, this is what is meant by obeying and submitting in a marriage. Just as Christ submitted His will to the father, husbands and wives should submit to one another. Submitting and obeying doesn't mean being a doormat. For the wife, it means she should be willing to follow her husband's leadership in Christ. For the husband, it means for him to put aside his own interests to care for his wife. If both spouses have a strong relationship with Christ, then this should not be a problem. I hope I didn't come off as preachy and my purpose was not to offend anyone, but to answer the question.

[D.COM]

Originally posted by Rain Man
I am really enjoying this discussion. I would like to say for the record, that men/husbands do not have it easy just because of the wife submitting to the husband. The men have their work cut out for them and they do have to step up to the plate when it comes to being the head of the household.

Do I believe in a balance between husband and wife? YES, I DO!!! The husband supplies the food, the wife supplies the meal. The husband supplies a house, the wife supplies a home. The husband supplies the seed, the wife supplies the child. Etcetera and so on.

Further, I feel another point is being missed on this whole submit/obey debate. When you really love your husband, and really want to put your all into the relationship, your submission won't come because you feel morally obligated to do so, it will come naturally. It won't feel like submission. Because the husband is putting his all to please you and to keep you feeling secure, you will naturally want to please him, and to keep him encouraged in his endeavors. I think that by wives being submissive to their husbands does not mean you will let your husbands be tyrants and dictators and walk all over you like a rug. NO! What it means is that while you may not always agree with him in his decisions that affect the family, you RESPECT his decisions because he is the head of the household and ultimately responsible for the acheivements and setbacks of the family as a family. In a nutshell, I am divorced for that very reason; my ex could not respect a major decision I had to execute as head of the family (and was a very tough decision to come to). She got upset, refused to talk to me, and ended the marriage, not knowing that afterwards, my personal life picked up immediately afterwards, and she could have been a part of that.

Now that I think about it, the reason why the word "obey" has an inferior ring to it, is because of the present day stigma attached to it. It implies, "I am the head, you are the tail", when in a marriage, it should imply, "I am the head, you are the neck that turns the head".

Hope this helps.

Match Game '73

Originally posted by loviest95
Well here is my $19.08... the word obey was not in my vows but I will say that I believe that a man is and should be the head of the household.. but as you know head does not mean dictate.. every good leader has good council and that is what I am -- my husband's council and some times I give him just a little nudge in the right direction .

and since he is to love me as CHRIST loves the church I have no problem because if my sweet hubby LOVES me that much then he'll do everything in his power to take good care of me

But I will say this "Ladies have your own relationship with God..before you have a relationship with anyone...."

------------------
IVY in my HAND-- AKA in my HEART

[This message has been edited by loviest95 (edited April 20, 2001).]

I am not married (yet?) but I agree with both above.

[AKA2D '91]

ttt for my soror! See, we have ALMOST discussed everything here!