Fraternity Life 2 - Page 8

amazinglagirl · #**106** 10-09-2003, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirHornyToad

Kevin- Seems to be the sleeper super pledge in the long run

As far as hazing goes, Horseshit, thats not hazing. Thats just good old bonding stuff. The fact that they didnt HAVE To and coulda stopped implies that it isnt hazing, its pledging.

Okay, first off...your "sleeper super pledge" ends up depledging along with Marty before the end of the season...so so much for that!

Second, have you ANY idea what hazing is?!?! Here is a link for ya! Just saying "you don't HAVE to" doesn't lift responsiibility from the group...if it is coercsion and done with intent to make you feel that you have to do it in order to gain admittance or acceptance into an organization, then it is against the law.

You don't have to LIKE the law or AGREE with the law...but you do have to COMPLY with the law.

amazinglagirl · #**107** 10-09-2003, 03:01 AM

Here it is:
32050. As used in this article, "hazing" includes any method of initiation or preinitiation into a student organization or any pastime or amusement engaged in with respect to such an organization which causes, or is likely to cause, bodily danger, physical harm, or personal degradation or disgrace resulting in physical or mental harm, to any student or other person attending any school, community college, college, university or other educational institution in this state; but the term "hazing" does not include customary athletic events or other similar contests or competitions.

Doesn't matter whether the pledges "agree to it" or not...it is still against the law because all that beach stuff was intended to disgrace and degrade. Period. Bonding my ASS!

KDbutterfly · #**108** 10-09-2003, 03:49 AM

While I agree that technically the pledges were getting hazed, I know of fraternities that do far worse and get away with it. This seemed way mild, so I don't see the need to throw the book at them. The pledges are fine, and it looks as if they were brought closer together through the experience.

dggirly · #**109** 10-09-2003, 06:45 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by amazinglagirl
[B]Okay, first off...your "sleeper super pledge" ends up depledging along with Marty before the end of the season...so so much for that!

Does anyone else find it kind of strange that so many of their pledges are dropping? I know at my school out of our pledge class of like 35 we might have 4 drop and it is all like the first week when they find out how much it is. It just seems kind of wierd to me that they have already had 2 drop with maybe one more next week and then with kevin and marty dropping like amazinglagirl said. That is like half their pledge class dropping and who knows if more will as well. It just seem to me that something must be wrong. I think it kind of seems even more strange because the brothers do not even care. kind of like they expected them all to drop and only have 2 left. I don't know just seems really wierd.

dggirly · #**110** 10-09-2003, 06:57 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by amazinglagirl
[B]Okay, first off...your "sleeper super pledge" ends up depledging along with Marty before the end of the season...so so much for that!

Does anyone else find it kind of strange that so many of their pledges are dropping? I know at my school out of our pledge class of like 35 we might have 4 drop and it is all like the first week when they find out how much it is. It just seems kind of wierd to me that they have already had 2 drop with maybe one more next week and then with kevin and marty dropping like amazinglagirl said. That is like half their pledge class dropping and who knows if more will as well. It just seem to me that something must be wrong. I think it kind of seems even more strange because the brothers do not even care. kind of like they expected them all to drop and only have 2 left. I don't know just seems really wierd.

KDbutterfly · #**111** 10-09-2003, 07:07 AM

I wonder if having the cameras there makes them more apt to quit. Something about knowing that this will all be aired on television probably makes them re-think some of the things the brothers are making them do. I wonder what it'd be like if the cameras weren't on them at all. Would they have all stuck it out? Though it's possible that some of them are there just because of the cameras. It's interesting to think about their motives.

Gina1201 · #**112** 10-09-2003, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
KS 361 laps up that hill Jon needs to do.....he's got bigger man-tits than some of my ex's

This is too FUNNY because, sad to say, it's so true!!

Kevin · #**113** 10-09-2003, 10:08 AM

I'm fully confident if Mr. S (wonder whtat that stands for) had tried to pull that stuff on any of our founding classes, dude would have been jumped.

If guys are dropping out of this house, good for them. Making you get up and do this stuff on the day of a midterm is crap. They weren't coerced to do it? Why were folks outside bitching about him not going if it wasn't expected? Will they end up with a tight brotherhood with the 4-5 guys they end up with? Probably. Are there other means to the same end? Definitely.

PiEp299 · #**114** 10-09-2003, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
Why were folks outside bitching about him not going if it wasn't expected?

because, as they said, they only push the pledges as far as THEY want to go.

riiiiiiight. And of course they wouldn't be balled if they didn't participate.

Somebody needs to put these guys back in the toolshed.

GeekyPenguin · #**115** 10-09-2003, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirHornyToad
As far as hazing goes, Horseshit, thats not hazing. Thats just good old bonding stuff. The fact that they didnt HAVE To and coulda stopped implies that it isnt hazing, its pledging.

Your definition of hazing, coming from your Greek system, is very different than that of those of us who belong to an NPC or NIC group. That is hazing to us.

SirHornyToad · #**116** 10-09-2003, 03:08 PM

blah, that hazing stuff is all nonsense, as long as it isn't done maliciously or pose any direct threat to thier saftey, and it is done with purpose and isnt done for some stupid reason, and the actives/alums have done the same thing before, in my opinion it isnt hazing and I think its lame to call it such.

Amazinglagirl- why are ya gettin all sassy with me? sorry i made a bad prediction about kevin, oh well, and that sucks about marty he seemed kinda cool, but oh well those are the breaks. How do you know they depledge though is my question, and why ya gotta ruin the surprise for me =(

GeekyPenguin · #**117** 10-09-2003, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirHornyToad
blah, that hazing stuff is all nonsense, as long as it isn't done maliciously or pose any direct threat to thier saftey, and it is done with purpose and isnt done for some stupid reason, and the actives/alums have done the same thing before, in my opinion it isnt hazing and I think its lame to call it such.

So since all of XYZ's alums got paddled every day, it's okay because it teaches you how to be a man and take pain? Awesome logic, my friend. Or should I say, awesome ethics.

DOC_Casey · #**118** 10-10-2003, 12:51 AM

Look.. Some organizations bond through sewing their little sisters pillows and some organizations bond through going through the SAME stuff everyone else has gone though.

I am not here to argue with anyone.. DOC is just not one of those pillow sewing orgs. THAT DIFFERENCE IS WHY THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS.

The difference between California State Law, and most University laws, is that for a state law violation there MUST BE A VICTIM. This is not the case in University rulebook violations. Luckily for us, we don't have to deal with the University because we are temporarily off campus. (Funny how that worked out.

There is no state law violation because there is no pledge/ex-pledge stating OH MY I WAS HAZED.

If we were a student recognized org we COULD be in violation for rulebook violations, but we aren't so we can't. As for State violations TRUST me when I say there is none.

In response to everyone else.. if you disagree then don't pledge DOC. If you don't, then you understand what those guys are going though. I don't care either way.. but the differences are what make every org different.

Casey

BTW GPB girls.. making your poor pledges sing your Riders of the Night song (IN MY EYES) is JUST as much hazing as having to do a couple of pushups in the sand.

It is all the same.. just a different perspective.

GeekyPenguin · #**119** 10-10-2003, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DOC_Casey
BTW GPB girls.. making your poor pledges sing your Riders of the Night song (IN MY EYES) is JUST as much hazing as having to do a couple of pushups in the sand. It is all the same.. just a different perspective.

1) Not every chapter sings that. I'd never even heard that song until I visited another chapter.

2) How is us sewing a pillow not "doing the same thing that everybody has done before?"

kddani · #**120** 10-10-2003, 01:04 AM

California statutes for reference
Cal Ed Code

§ 32050. "Hazing"

As used in this article, "hazing" includes any method of initiation or preinitiation into a student organization or student body or any pastime or amusement engaged in with respect to these organizations which causes, or is likely to cause, bodily danger, physical harm, or personal degradation or disgrace resulting in physical or mental harm, to any pupil or other person attending any school, community college, college, university, or other educational institution in this state . The term "hazing" does not include customary athletic events or other similar contests or competitions.

§ 32051. Hazing prohibited

No student, or other person in attendance at any public, private, parochial, or military school, community college, college, or other educational institution, shall conspire to engage in hazing, participate in hazing, or commit any act that causes or is likely to cause bodily danger, physical harm, or personal degradation or disgrace resulting in physical or mental harm to any fellow student or person attending the institution.

The violation of this section is a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars ($ 100), nor more than five thousand dollars ($ 5,000), or imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or both.

================================================== ===

While you may not have a victim yet (btw- there's no mention of a victim in the statutes.... I don't have time to look through the case law to see how it's applied), that doesn't mean that no one would ever turn you in.

What about one of those many pledges that dropped out b/c they didn't want to deal with the BS? What would keep them from suing? Just because no one's stepped up and had the balls to say "this isn't right and i'm going to do something about it" doesn't mean that there will never be anyone.

I also don't know what the statute of limitations on this particular law would be.

Being that it's under the education not criminal code, it probably would require a so called "victim" to step up, unlike in a criminal case where the DA could prosecute.

This is once again inspiration for me to find the time to try to write a law journal article on hazing laws.............