NPHC BGLO's how do you feel about non NPHC BGLO's

[naraht]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

[hijack]Naraht, you remember the days we used to post on APO-L? I still read the online archives from time to time. Matter of fact, I have known you 12 years and only via the Internet. I gotta make a note to meet you in person sometime. I came a LONG way from APO-L, as you may remember. But I digress.... [/hijack]

PS, I still think we should collaborate and write a REAL Alpha Phi Omega history book

Unfortunately, not sure of your name IRL. Drop me a PM...

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

btw, THAT was, is, and has ALWAYS been my platform ever since I joined Greekchat.

Liar.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

LOL.

The difference that I see is that APO started as a focus on service through which brotherhood can be realized.

We started as a focus on sisterhood through which service and empowered communities can be realized.



I was a Brownie. The worst thing ever. It served as nothing but a reinforcement of gender stereotypes and expectations. Maybe that was just my Brownie leaders who sucked.

My Mom was my leader, so I didn't have much choice. But from there to GS we were always a very "feminist" group--our good soror, my Mom didn't play the gender sterotype. Shoot we even had outings with my Dad's troop and trust, all genders played equal roles in cooking, cleaning, pitching tents, starting the firepit, etc. We were ahead of the times.

I would say that my Scouting years were a major player in the development of me as an independent woman. I could shoot a bow and arrow with the best of the guys and still look cute doing it. LOL

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I have no idea since I know nothing about APO, except what I have read here,nor do I care to know. But one may be that you started as Boy Scouts and we didn't.

btw, came from a Scouting family--father an Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow and troop leader, mother a GS troop leader, me from Brownie all the way through MAriner Scout--camp counselor and troop leader. So I am not knocking Scouting.

Fair enough. And my knowledge of DST is largely limited to books (though relevant books on the NPHC).

However I will say that my wife has commented that the school where she went (Frostburg State) had DST and a certain NPHC sorority older than DST and that DST was the one that was actually willing to talk to her during the organizational fair given that she is caucasian.

I didn't have any of the NPHC GLOs at my College... (Carnegie-Mellon)

Quite a scouting family!

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

LOL.

The difference that I see is that APO started as a focus on service through which brotherhood can be realized.

We started as a focus on sisterhood through which service and empowered communities can be realized.

I was a Brownie. The worst thing ever. It served as nothing but a reinforcement of gender stereotypes and expectations. Maybe that was just my Brownie leaders who sucked.

Chaos, you know what?

You just helped me answer my own question (btw your first answer was almost 100% correct). APO actually started as a focus on SCOUTING through which brotherhood can be realized. The service aspect was merely an incidental aspect of Scouting. APO was not officially classified as a Service fraternity until 1940, 15 years after our founding.

So in essence, the (at least original) difference b/t APO and Delta was with APO, it's focus was on Scouting with an emphasis on brotherhood, whereas with Delta, its focus is/was on sisterhood with an emphasis on service.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

My Mom was my leader, so I didn't have much choice. But from there to GS we were always a very "feminist" group--our good soror, my Mom didn't play the gender sterotype. Shoot we even had outings with my Dad's troop and trust, all genders played equal roles in cooking, cleaning, pitching tents, starting the firepit, etc. We were ahead of the times.

I would say that my Scouting years were a major player in the development of me as an independent woman. I could shoot a bow and arrow with the best of the guys and still look cute doing it. LOL

See, I was deprived. I always thought the Scout thing was nonsense because of the whole gender thing.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

You just helped me answer my own question.

DUH.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

LOL.

The difference that I see is that APO started as a focus on service through which brotherhood can be realized.

We started as a focus on sisterhood through which service and empowered communities can be realized.

Actually, arguably we started as a focus on the scout oath and law as a standard of manhood.

From "The story behind the founding", in our pledge ceremony and pledge manual.

(The I is Frank Reed Horton, our founder)
Because of these experiences, I made a firm resolution within myself that if I returned alive, I would try to do two things and do them with all my power. First, do my best to help young people get the right start in life by holding up before them a "standard of manhood" that would withstand the test of time! Second and just as important, try to help the nations of the world settle their disputes in a more sensible and legal manner than by war.

After the war, I became a student at Lafayette College, Easton, Pennsylvania. One evening, while attending an American Legion banquet during my sophomore year, I sat next to an inspiring man named Herbert G. Horton. We were not related but we became fast friends. He, too, had been a naval officer but was now serving as the local Scout Executive. He helped me to become a Deputy Scout Commissioner. One of the troops needed a leader, so I became a Scoutmaster as well.

Through these experiences, I found that the Scout Oath and Law were what I had been seeking - a standard of manhood that would withstand the test of time and a code of ideals created and accepted by some of the greatest leaders the world has ever known

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I was a Brownie. The worst thing ever. It served as nothing but a reinforcement of gender stereotypes and expectations. Maybe that was just my Brownie leaders who sucked.

Entirely possible!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I would say that my Scouting years were a major player in the development of me as an independent woman. I could shoot a bow and arrow with the best of the guys and still look cute doing it. LOL

Congrats!

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Liar.

No, that is actually very much true, although my platform nowadays has been altered somewhat. My platform now is moreso on diversity, not the shallow tolerance/tokenism you oftentimes see, but a true embracement and respect of cultures different from our own. I think each culture has something valuable they can learn from another culture.

My other platform is on male empowerment (which I'm sure you remember, though IMO I have toned down considerably from the old days).

[naraht]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Chaos, you know what?

You just helped me answer my own question (btw your first answer was almost 100% correct). APO actually started as a focus on SCOUTING through which brotherhood can be realized. The service aspect was merely an incidental aspect of Scouting. APO was not officially classified as a Service fraternity until 1940, 15 years after our founding.

So in essence, the (at least original) difference b/t APO and Delta was with APO, it's focus was on Scouting with an emphasis on brotherhood, whereas with Delta, its focus is/was on sisterhood with an emphasis on service.

1940 sounds about right, I'll have to back through the T&Ts with the results of the Indianapolis 1940 convention.

And I'm willing to take your "in essence" at least for Alpha Phi Omega...

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by naraht

Actually, arguably we started as a focus on the scout oath and law as a standard of manhood.

From "The story behind the founding", in our pledge ceremony and pledge manual.

(The I is Frank Reed Horton, our founder)
Because of these experiences, I made a firm resolution within myself that if I returned alive, I would try to do two things and do them with all my power. First, do my best to help young people get the right start in life by holding up before them a "standard of manhood" that would withstand the test of time! Second and just as important, try to help the nations of the world settle their disputes in a more sensible and legal manner than by war.

After the war, I became a student at Lafayette College, Easton, Pennsylvania. One evening, while attending an American Legion banquet during my sophomore year, I sat next to an inspiring man named Herbert G. Horton. We were not related but we became fast friends. He, too, had been a naval officer but was now serving as the local Scout Executive. He helped me to become a Deputy Scout Commissioner. One of the troops needed a leader, so I became a Scoutmaster as well.

Through these experiences, I found that the Scout Oath and Law were what I had been seeking - a standard of manhood that would withstand the test of time and a code of ideals created and accepted by some of the greatest leaders the world has ever known

And it is through service that the standard of manhood is realized and mobilized.

I won't comment on the loaded notion of a "standard of manhood."

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

No, that is actually very much true, although my platform nowadays has been altered somewhat. My platform now is moreso on diversity, not the shallow tolerance/tokenism you oftentimes see, but a true embracement and respect of cultures different from our own. I think each culture has something valuable they can learn from another culture.

My other platform is on male empowerment (which I'm sure you remember, though IMO I have toned down considerably from the old days).

Running for Kappa office?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

(at Scouting) Good point. I only asked b/c I always figured if the true intent of our orgs was to serve in some capacity, there should be/have been a lot less inter-org disputes about trivial matters that had nothing to do with the reason why our respective orgs exist.

Again read the history on who was founded to do public service. And not to offend the other NPHCers, but for most of them the idea of being a service organization is relatively new--like in the last two decades.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad that is now the emphasis for all of us, but it wasn't always. So thus the rivalrys that existed and in some places are hard to break.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Naraht, as a side note, did you know that there is a relatively new fraternity that is picking up where Alpha Phi Omega left off, so to speak?

The fraternity is named Epsilon Tau Pi, founded in 1999 at the University of Dayton, and membership is restricted to former Eagle Scouts.

I'll give you the weblink if interested.