Has the tradition of Legacies outgrown its usefulness?

[crescent&pearls]

I've been ruminating on something while reading this thread..I never thought of release figures as mandatory or arbitrary.

Release figures are based on a formula, and that formula is derived from historical return stats. The most popular chapters therefore have to release the largest number of pnms, because their stats indicate that they will very likely have their choice of their favorites accept their invitations.

If a group has a variation in their returns, they can appeal to the panhellenic advisor in charge of rush to be flexible with their return rates to maximize the chance of pledging quota right? and vice versa, a chapter having extraordinarily high and unexpected returns might be asked to whittle their invite list down for the benefit of the system, and to avoid having too many women that end up bidless.

All the chapters agree to abide by the system because its the most efficient way to manage the recruitment of a large number of new members. None of us could or would want to pledge all our legacies, but because we all promote the system to our friends and classmates and legacies we all mutually benefit from the system. It's not perfect, but it does work something along the lines of what Ronald Reagan once said..."when the tide comes in, it raises up all the boats in the harbor."

I amy not have all this exactly right, but maybe someone whose been involved more recently with the RFM can give their perspective?

[lauralaylin]

You're thinking of flex lists. When given a number that the chapter can invite back, they are often also asked to give a + and - list with a specific number of PNMs ranked. So if the chapter does better or worse than expected, they are covered. IMO this makes it not arbitrary at all.

[TXalum1]

Originally Posted by WCsweet<3

Isn't there a legacy form to fill out and send to the chapter? I wouldn't have known my grandmother's pin number or anything like that.

You are thinking about the Legacy Introduction form. It was in the Spring 2009 issue of the magazine. It just asks for basic info, no badge numbers, etc. All you need is the chapter and initiation year, and you could guess at the year and write "deceased" on the address line. You still have to fill in a reference form. They suggest having the alum staple them together even though they duplicate some of the information.

One of my friends did that when her daughters went through recruitment, but we didn't include it with my references on her daughters. She sent it to the chapter with a note.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by itb

That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.

That's the purpose of the GLO's legacy introduction form (or whatever each group calls it) and Rec. This gives Grandma, Mom, or Sis the opportunity to tell a Chapter all about little Suzy before Recruitment starts.

Like 33girl said, I have no desire to call Suzy's Grandma to ask her why her sweet princess has the most alcoholic, trampy pix on Facebook I've ever seen or why she only earned a 2.1 GPA with an ACT score of 15. Nor do I or any member of my team have the time to call Grandma and the other 99 legacy PNMs' alumnae that are going through our nearly 1500 PNM Recruitment.

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Zillini

That's the purpose of the GLO's legacy introduction form (or whatever each group calls it) and Rec. This gives Grandma, Mom, or Sis the opportunity to tell a Chapter all about little Suzy before Recruitment starts.

Like 33girl said, I have no desire to call Suzy's Grandma to ask her why her sweet princess has the most alcoholic, trampy pix on Facebook I've ever seen or why she only earned a 2.1 GPA with an ACT score of 15. Nor do I or any member of my team have the time to call Grandma and the other 99 legacy PNMs' alumnae that are going through our nearly 1500 PNM Recruitment.

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.

To be quite honest, why should we have to disclose WHY a legacy was released?

I understand that we should notify the relative of the release, but I totally disagree with having to tell them that "Suzy has questionable grades and has beer pong pics on Facebook."

As far as my sorority goes, THAT is part of Membership Selection. It's very private.

We would never tell any other PNM or her family the exact reason that she was cut, so I fail to see why we should do it for legacies.

[ADqtPiMel]

Originally Posted by Zillini

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.

Can I tell you how pleased I was that they adopted this policy the year BEFORE I became recruitment advisor?

[honeychile]

I knew I had read an article on this very topic, and sure enough, it was from our Adelphean Magazine and is in the public domain. You can read it here.

[WCsweet<3]

I understand why legacies are given some extra treatment (at some places that is). I mean the parents do have more of a clue about greek life than non-greek parents, but on the other hand, I feel like it puts pressure on the PNM. If I don't like Mom/Sister/whatever sorority will they be mad? If Patty PNM is a legacy to XYZ the other sororities will cut her because that is the only place she will want to be.

The two examples I put above have been things I've heard tossed around GC or on my campus. A girl I have known all my life went through recruitment after her mother and sister went through on the same campus. Older daughter almost didn't continue through recruitment because she didn't like her mom's chapter. The second daughter was crying when she went through because she didn't know what to do with her family's chapters. Was she supposed to love them? She ended up pledging her sister's sorority (sisters squared) and her mother was fine with that, but both daughters had a lot of pressure and needless worry because of the legacy factor.

It makes sense to me, but on the other hand it doesn't.

[KSUViolet06]

I think the level of worry that a PNM experiences in regards to being legacy (i.e. worrying if mom will be upset about her not liking XYZ/getting cut from XYZ/dropping XYZ) depends on the type of parent/relative we're dealing with.

If you have an ultra supportive mom who really just wants to see you happy and didn't really push the legacy chapter, you likely aren't going to be TOO hung up on getting cut from there or dropping them (or just not liking them).

However, if your mom is the type who feels that come hell or high water, you WILL be an XYZ, has been grooming you for XYZ since birth and nothing else will do, you likely are going to be pretty worried about whether you get invited back there. Mom's approval depends on it.

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I knew I had read an article on this very topic, and sure enough, it was from our Adelphean Magazine and is in the public domain. You can read it here.

Honeychile- the Adelphean is lovely. I was impressed by some of the legacy families they listed.

I was curious about one of the legacy policies- "Any chapter not at Total the term before the formal recruitment period must extend a bid to any legacy participating in formal recruitment. Any exception to this must be approved by the District Team Director".

I haven't heard of that policy with any other group.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

Honeychile- the Adelphean is lovely. I was impressed by some of the legacy families they listed.

I was curious about one of the legacy policies- "Any chapter not at Total the term before the formal recruitment period must extend a bid to any legacy participating in formal recruitment. Any exception to this must be approved by the District Team Director".

I haven't heard of that policy with any other group.

Since Alpha Delta Pi actually has 9- and 10-generation legacies, we're all about the historical value. That's the best response I can give. Maybe another GLO has something similar?

When I was in school, a 5-generation legacy rushed us. She made it abundantly clear from Open Houses on that she did NOT want to go greek, that her family was forcing her to rush. By the second round, I had to make the call to our DTD and tell them she didn't want to rush, and she in turn called our EO. No go. The next round, it was obvious that not only did she not want to rush, she didn't want us - and frankly, we didn't like her. Long story short, we pledged her, she came to about half of the pledge meetings, got initiated at Convention, and transferred to a school without a chapter of ADPi. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, if she ever had a daughter, she did not pressure her to go ADPi! The better news is that she had a fantastic roomie, who pledged with her and fit in from Bid Day on!

Having said that, I do know of another legacy who was completely obnoxious - her mother, two aunts, and two cousins are all ADPis - but the chapter was luckier with her. A Traveling Counsultant AND the DTD were there during Recruitment, met her, and they made sure that she stayed cut!

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Having said that, I do know of another legacy who was completely obnoxious - her mother, two aunts, and two cousins are all ADPis - but the chapter was luckier with her. A Traveling Counsultant AND the DTD were there during Recruitment, met her, and they made sure that she stayed cut!

@ bolded - it's a shame that chapters aren't trusted to make these decisions on their own. I'm not trying to say anything bad about ADPi specifically - because it likely happens in other orgs, too. But seriously, if it takes this many people (in addition to the chapter members) to cut undesireable legacies, something is wrong. If the chapter doesn't see a good fit with a legacy, then since they're the ones who will have to interact with said legacy, it makes sense to me that the chapter should get to decide whether to bid her.

I think it's awesome that there are 9- and 10-generation legacies (of any org) out there, though. I'm not trying to diminish legacy status by any means.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

@ bolded - it's a shame that chapters aren't trusted to make these decisions on their own. I'm not trying to say anything bad about ADPi specifically - because it likely happens in other orgs, too. But seriously, if it takes this many people (in addition to the chapter members) to cut undesireable legacies, something is wrong. If the chapter doesn't see a good fit with a legacy, then since they're the ones who will have to interact with said legacy, it makes sense to me that the chapter should get to decide whether to bid her.

I think it's awesome that there are 9- and 10-generation legacies (of any org) out there, though. I'm not trying to diminish legacy status by any means.

I think what honeychile meant was more that the TC & DTD were there to make sure the collegians didn't waffle under Obnoxious Ophelia's relatives calling and asking why she got cut. It sounded like the collegians were in agreement on not wanting her skank ass in the chapter. In that case, it's nice to have someone above you back you up.

[SydneyK]

It sounded to me, too, that the collegians didn't want her skank ass in the chapter. Maybe I read it wrong, but it sounded like the chapter wouldn't have been allowed to refrain from bidding the girl without the support of the TC and DTD.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think what honeychile meant was more that the TC & DTD were there to make sure the collegians didn't waffle under Obnoxious Ophelia's relatives calling and asking why she got cut. It sounded like the collegians were in agreement on not wanting her skank ass in the chapter. In that case, it's nice to have someone above you back you up.

For the win - although I will never be able to see this woman again without thinking of the phrase "skank ass"! I was in chapter with one of the cousins, and do occasionally run into her.

And yes, it's FANTASTIC when the higher-ups back up the collegiates' decisions!