How can people get away with revealing secrets?

[sairose]

Oops, let me clarify. The MITs are not ORDERED to do so; we let them know that we think it best for them to wait to wear/carry letters. However an MIT last year carried an SAI keychain and we didn't say anything about it(hazing issues, as you stated).

[agreek]

It is totally amazing!

How in the hell do yo get New Members to wear Letters, Colors, or New Associace Pins?

How do You get Actives, to wear Letters, colors, and Badges!

What do you do to get Members to promote Your Organization.

What by wearing t-shirts promoting everything else that don't mean s^&t!

What is wrong with this picture?

[AlphaXiAsh]

alpha xi delta has verrrrrry strict policies, most more strict than NPC policies. Which is a very good thing. The definition I was given of hazing was anything that separates a new member from a sister...so we were allowed to wear and have letters before initiation, and go to chapter, just like the rest of the sisters. The only thing was that we didn't know ritual. That was it. There are some things that are kind of tradition in our chapter, like not wearing a jersey or lavalier until you're initated. (because you get those things from your big at initation, usually) I also noticed that most new members didn't put letters on their car until they were intiated either. But every chapter and organization is different.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by carnation
Pi Phi's new members can only wear the words "Pi Beta Phi"; they can't use the Greek letters or the crest until after initiation. There was a thread on this awhile back but I have no clue how to find that one!

I was also told that as a "pledge" I was not allowed to wear letters until initiated. I was completely fine with that and while I was a pledge I didn't feel it was right to wear something that I did not know the meaning of, but that was just my personal feelings. We are apparently mistaken. There is no mention of this rule in our C&S and there is actually a thread about this in the Pi Phi forum on the Bid-Day t-shirt thread. It was clarified by our Director of Academics, Karen Gunther in this thread. I'll post the link.

Bid Day t-shirt thread

edited to add: It is considered hazing when new members are not allowed to wear/have, carry, etc the same things as active members, I know by our headquarters and I assume NPC. My chapter in no way was intentionally hazing, but we were all under the impression that it was a rule.

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by carnation
Pi Phi's new members can only wear the words "Pi Beta Phi"; they can't use the Greek letters or the crest until after initiation. There was a thread on this awhile back but I have no clue how to find that one!

Likewise for AEPhi. New members can wear things that say "Alpha Epsilon Phi" or "AEPhi", just not "AEF". The reasoning is that new members don't know the full meaning of the letters yet, so they shouldn't be wearing them.

It made it that much more special to me when, the day after initiation, I wore letters for the first time.

Kappa Alpha Theta has the same rule, at least at my school.

In the strictest sense, I can see where this might be considered "hazing". New members are being forbidden to do something that the sisters have a right to do. But new members are also forbidden to wear the badge - is that hazing? Besides, new members are just being told not to wear letters... that's a far cry from "here, finish this keg" or "you're not allowed to shower for the next week".

(Hmmm... this thread sure strayed far from the original topic. But that's ok... )

[RedRoseSAI]

Originally posted by sairose
In my SAI chapter(I say MY chapter because I'm not sure what other chapters do, or if this is a national rule)

It's not a national rule, although many chapters have such policies in place. My college chapter allowed pledges to have "SAI" or "Sigma Alpha Iota" but not "SAI".

[carnation]

Thanks for letting me know, Lady Pi Phi! However, I bet that if the rule isn't there now, it was in the past. We were in no way hazed and not being able to use the letters, along with wearing tiny wine and blue pledge ribbons, wasn't considered hazing when I was active.

I don't think either should be considered hazing now. Like aephialum said, you don't let new members wear the pin--is that hazing? I remember that minutes after the post initiation party, we all tore upstairs and put on the Greek-letter shirts we'd been saving and ran outside and put the decals on our cars! It was special and wonderful and worth the wait!

[Munchkin03]

I don't understand how anyone can wear letters not knowing what they mean--but maybe that's just me. I guess a lot of it is walking around in letters, looking cute. I don't think I wore any letters until after Initiaion. but that's probably because I didn't get any until the post-Initiation party.

These rules, well-intentioned and all to stop allegations of hazing, are only going to increase the sense of entitlement some new members have going into the new member education process anyway. What's so special about initiation, or staying in a group through thick and thin, if you wore the letters and everything right after Bid Day?

Oh yeah--what do you tell someone who's upset because their significant other is in a group and can't tell them the secrets. "Get a life/grip" isn't working anymore. This isn't about Mr. Munchkin03, but a friend whose boyfriend is in some co-ed literary society and she wants to know what they do (from what we've heard, they do things that are a little sketchy--like make-out orgies and group showers). How do I tell her that that stuff has NOTHING to do with our rituals?

[sairose]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
I don't understand how anyone can wear letters not knowing what they mean--but maybe that's just me.

What's so special about initiation, or staying in a group through thick and thin, if you wore the letters and everything right after Bid Day?

I agree completely. I remember when I was pledging, I couldn't WAIT until initiation so I could go buy keychains and stuff. And I did, the day after initiation...I actually bought 3 different keychains(LOL I'm such a Greek Geek), as well as a car decal and lisence plate. It meant more to me when I finally got to own the stuff, y'know? I know that during pledging I wanted to have a lettered t-shirt SO bad, but I'm glad that I had to wait.

[FuzzieAlum]

I'm just taking a wild stab here, but I'm going to guess that just about everyone on here will say that their organization's policy (at the time they were pledging) as to what they can and cannot wear is the right one. It's all in what you're used to. Personally, I don't care whether XYZ lets its non-initiated members wear everything, nothing, just letters, or whatever - as long as members understand and abide by their organization's policy.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Iconoclastic (in part)
I looked to Jesus for guidance at this point. He had nothing to hide. His principle of secrecy is much more honorable than the GLO system. How many people have been cleared of criminal offenses because of the greek connection, not innocence? Jesus says that whatever I speak to in secret take it to the world. That was His program.

I guess you just conveniently disregard those numerous portions of the Gospels where Jesus commands his disciples to keep secret the things they have seen or to keep his teachings secret until after his resurrection. Not to mention his deliberate use of parables that some would understand and others would not -- "Let him who has ears to hear...."

Ah, selective memory and selective reading can be so useful. One should never allow the complete picture to get in the way of one's prejudices.

[ChiOqt]

CardinalSM~ do any of your chapters new members ever wear letters prior to initiation. In our chapter we're told that while we are allowed, letter are something that are earned as you learn about Chi Omega. So all of our pledge classes never wear letters out of respect for older, initiated sisters? I've never really heard of memebers wearing them before initiation...but maybe just because that's what our chapter does.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by AlphaXiAsh
alpha xi delta has verrrrrry strict policies, most more strict than NPC policies. Which is a very good thing. The definition I was given of hazing was anything that separates a new member from a sister...so we were allowed to wear and have letters before initiation, and go to chapter, just like the rest of the sisters. The only thing was that we didn't know ritual. That was it. There are some things that are kind of tradition in our chapter, like not wearing a jersey or lavalier until you're initated. (because you get those things from your big at initation, usually) I also noticed that most new members didn't put letters on their car until they were intiated either. But every chapter and organization is different.

(italics added)

Our policy (Alpha Delta Pi) is like yours - if it even has an appearance of hazing, it's out! We, too, get our first lavalier after initiation, but again, it's tradition.

I have to admit that this thread is the very first time I've ever heard of a new member needing to "earn" her letters, in any GLO. I am in complete amazement that y'all don't consider that hazing, yet consider wearing a ribbon with your colors hazing.

honeychile

[33girl]

Originally posted by honeychile
(italics added)
I have to admit that this thread is the very first time I've ever heard of a new member needing to "earn" her letters, in any GLO. I am in complete amazement that y'all don't consider that hazing, yet consider wearing a ribbon with your colors hazing.

honeychile

I think the reasoning behind it is if the pledge doesn't know any of the meaning behind the letters, she shouldn't wear them. Remember the t-shirts with Chinese characters on them? Apparently they meant nothing and people in China were laughing their butts off at the idiots wearing t-shirts that said "blue madly cat" or something of the like.

ASA can wear letter shirts as soon as we are bid, but our letters (in Greek and English) also correspond to our open motto - Aspire, Seek, Attain. I would not want to wear letters if I had no idea what they meant. We did have to wait to wear/own crests until after initiation and it really made them special.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by carnation
Thanks for letting me know, Lady Pi Phi! However, I bet that if the rule isn't there now, it was in the past. We were in no way hazed and not being able to use the letters, along with wearing tiny wine and blue pledge ribbons, wasn't considered hazing when I was active.

I don't think either should be considered hazing now. Like aephialum said, you don't let new members wear the pin--is that hazing? I remember that minutes after the post initiation party, we all tore upstairs and put on the Greek-letter shirts we'd been saving and ran outside and put the decals on our cars! It was special and wonderful and worth the wait!

In my opinion, some of the things that are considered hazing, like scavenger hunts are a little ridiculous, but it's considered hazing because our inter/nationals are trying to protect themselves and the chapters.

I don't feel I was hazed in anyway. My pledge class received our first letters from our big sisters right after initiation. I think it was special and well worth the wait. I personally didn't feel right about my letters before I was initiated.

But I can see why this would be considered hazing.