It happened again... - Page 8

librasoul22 · #**106** 10-29-2002, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
I want to throw something out there. What if a black person who was light skinned used black face to darken up?

It would suck just as bad. Actually moreso, because that person is so oblivious to their own history.

Optimist Prime · #**107** 10-29-2002, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by librasoul22

It would suck just as bad. Actually moreso, because that person is so oblivious to their own history.

thats what I figured, but wanted another's opinion.

VirtuousErudite · #**108** 10-30-2002, 01:56 PM

Kappa Sigma's Lambda chapter at the University of Tennessee printed an official apology in the Daily Beacon, the school newspaper stating that they are very sorry and the guilty parties will be disciplined.

Kevin · #**109** 10-30-2002, 02:05 PM

I'm glad to see Kappa Sigma is letting their members know that this behavior is not acceptable. I'm sure they won't do it again. This is not something any of us wants to make national headlines for doing.

VirtuousErudite · #**110** 10-30-2002, 06:42 PM

Kappa Sigma at UT has been suspended by their national body.

The1calledTKE · #**111** 10-30-2002, 07:56 PM

Least they didn't lose their charter because of a few insensitive guys.

AKA_Monet · #**112** 10-30-2002, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum

Uh, gee whiz.

I kinda like some country music.

But I've never lived in a trailer park. (I did carry newspapers in one once) Nor have I ever chewed tobacco. And I don't have a pickup truck, let alone a trailer hitch. Never been divorced. Get along with my mother-in-law. Not crazy about trains. Don't wear a cowboy hat or boots. Have most of my teeth.

Just pointing out that stereotypes are easy to fall into -- and some country music fans might take offense.

That doesn't make any part of wearing blackface OK in any way. And I don't think there is any question that these guys will be punished.

Even though this is probably a case of being dumb as opposed to being mean spirited.

My point EXACTLY!!!

Some of what you are saying is discussing the issue of stereotypes and how they hurt those that they are against.

Some of what other folks are talking about is racism and how pervasive it is.

ktsnake:

You said awhile back ('cuz DAYUM, I get gon' in 2 days and y'all on the 8th page!!!), that the Universities are government entities and should be out of legislating or dictating morals and offensive behaviors displayed by students. Well, I disagree with your perception. 1. I would be accurate to say that most African Americans find blackface (for the sake of arguement) offensive and that is should be asserted by the University that the despicable behavior will be punished. Why? Because, most African Americans see this behavior as not as an expression of choice, but as a "terrorist attack" one's whole perception of life. How? How would you feel if one were to imitate and mock YOUR way of life and to simply nullify it as "oh well, I just didn't know, what's the big deal anyways?"

For everyone:

This issue goes back to stereotyping. All people are guilty of it and African Americans are no less guilty than another ethnic group.

Racism is an institution. It was once legislated and legal to segregate and bar one ACCESS to public accomodations and pursuance of employment. The 1964 Civil Right's act abolished those laws. Moreover, racism--even though a misnomer because there is not such thing as a genetically distinct "race"--cause MANY different cultures, most notably African Americans--but MANY others to a lesser degree a second class citizenship in the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave"... And many Caucasians died side by side with African Americans to change those laws. Why? Because, how can the United States impose laws and adjudicate where some could go, how someone could live and what their behave out to be--all the time--when the Constitution and the Bill of Rights say differently? Separate is inherently unequal...

So when some weak-assed, small dickless children smear brown or black paint on their faces and appear to ridicule those that appear similar, when they do not normally look that way is a defamation and abomination to my ancestors, my family and my entire being!

How can an University CALL themselves as a diverse atmosphere, sell me on believing that I would feel safe environment to excel in my academic endeavors? How can an Unversity CALL themselves that their student population is here for academic degrees when there ONE mockery of a group of students on campus? How is that safe--or rather--how can THAT NOT be perceived as a terrorist attack--my whole way of life is being made worthless. I already come from family life that could be improved, so if I wanted to "jack" myself, I would have stayed in the 'hood!!! An attack on one culture is an attack on all... And yes, African American groups have been guilty too--what are these Male Auctions all about? Moreover, does this have ANYTHING to do with succeeding in my ACADEMIC MAJOR and getting MY DEGREE? (That's what your Mama's gonna ask you about!!!)

James · #**113** 10-30-2002, 11:04 PM

But this is a situation where the word "racism" is being defined as a political term with a context. The definition and context is then used to foster a type of argument.

People could say that dominant culture is inherently "racist", from this definition, because they perpetuate negative stereotypes on a minority and have the institutional power to make those views felt on the minority population.

So the previous white government in South Africa was "Racist" by this definition. However, the current black government is now "racist".

In any kind of debate it is important to agree on the definitions being used.

I understand the logic behind this definiton of "racism" and would be willing to accept it in the spirit it was being written if I were reviewing a position statement where the person was giving an analogy, metaphor, and a perspective.

I don't find this to be a useful definiton for debating here, because there doesn't seem to be significant agreement that this definiton stands.

So it confuses the debate, and puts us in a circular argument over the definiton of a word.

Sorry for this digression into argument deconstruction.

Quote:

Originally posted by librasoul22

If that is the case, you mean PREJUDICED. Yes, anyone of any race can be prejudiced. However, in order to take that next step into racism, one must possess enough power to actually exert some form of oppression on another race. You really should take a look at the Prejudism thread (if you have a good 4 hours, lol), because there was a great discussion. In case you didn't know, this is only about the 45th time race has been debated on GC, lol.

cash78mere · #**114** 10-30-2002, 11:11 PM

i do not agree that this is a "terrorist attack" you cannot compare this incident with the horrors that real terrorist have caused. that really is not a valid comparison.

Tom Earp · #**115** 10-30-2002, 11:30 PM

AKA_MONET, I think You Have Said It Best out of the total thread, not only on this one, but all of them!

Thank You for your insight and thoughts on this.

We all get hot under the collar when someone trys to point out that the different people of colors are the same because of their color which is not true.

Each individual is going to be what they are no matter what!

I appreciate your post as I am sure many others on the GC Site think the same!

DeltAlum · #**116** 10-31-2002, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
Why? Because, how can the United States impose laws and adjudicate where some could go, how someone could live and what their behave out to be--all the time--when the Constitution and the Bill of Rights say differently? Separate is inherently unequal...

I would like to have had the opportunity to ask my Cherokee ancestors about that. It's a long walk from the Carolinas to Stillwater.

The1calledTKE · #**117** 10-31-2002, 01:19 AM

I think suspention is the only thing that will happen. I was researching what happened to greeks in the past that did this and this is what I found...

SOME PAST BLACKFACE INCIDENTS

* Emory University: A member of Kappa Alpha fraternity was photographed
wearing blackface at a 1998 Halloween party. The photograph appeared in the
university's 1999 yearbook, angering many black students.

* George Mason University: In 1991, a member of Sigma Chi fraternity
appeared in blackface during an "ugly woman" skit at a campus fund raiser.
The university suspended Sigma Chi for two years, but the U.S. Court of
Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ruled in 1993 that the skit was protected by
the First Amendment and nullified the penalty.

* Shawnee State University: In 1993, two female students wore blackface to
a women's basketball practice the night before the team played a
predominantly black college. The students, both athletes, were suspended
from participating in sports at the university. In addition, all athletes
were required to attend sensitivity training.

* State University of West Georgia: In 1997, members of the Kappa Alpha
fraternity appeared in a skit wearing blackface to mimic the Jackson 5. The
university required those involved to attend a sensitivity seminar.

* Texas A&M University: In 1992, the university fined Sigma Alpha Epsilon
fraternity $1,000 after it held a "jungle party" in which students painted
their faces black and wore grass skirts.

* Texas Tech University: At a 1992 event called "Party in the Projects,"
members of the Pi Kappa Alpha fraternity wore blackface and Afro wigs.
Texas Tech placed the fraternity on deferred suspension through 1994, which
meant Pi Kappa Alpha was forbidden from accepting new members or sponsoring
social activities.

* University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa: "Who Rides the Bus?" was the theme
of a 1991 campus mixer held by the Kappa Delta sorority. Two members wore
blackface and stuffed basketballs under their shirts to simulate pregnancy.
About 1,000 students and faculty members held a silent march in protest.

Honeykiss1974 · #**118** 10-31-2002, 11:22 AM

Zntke711,

Thanks for posting that info. I had never heard of those incidents before (Party in The Projects)

? WTH? I think some folks also need some CREATIVITY training too!

WHOA America, these are college students, coming to a neighborhood, workplace near you!

But again, I have learned a lot for some folks in this thread. Aside for the occassion ignoramous(sp) I think the convo of this thread has been debated very maturely.

Kevin · #**119** 10-31-2002, 12:08 PM

One group has an annual party here called the "White Trash Trailer Bash".

That same group painted a building for homecoming (part of our homecoming tradition) with caricitures of native americans saying "I hate being a savage" (we're playing the Southeastern State Savages). No one has called them on either transgression.

There's plenty of ignorance to go around and it's definitely not all pointed in the same direction.

As for the "terrorist attacks"... To me that seems to be a little harsh a term. In my perception a terrorist attack has to attempt to do PHYSICAL violence while also inflicting mental violence. And the particular incedent that this thread started over (a fella dressing up as Louis Armstrong for a party) as I have stated is probably not as bad as some of these other groups who I will agree with you -- they might as well have been wearing pointy hats and burning crosses.

It amazes me sometimes how we can claim to have the greatest educational system in the world and still have such ignorant people attending its schools.

librasoul22 · #**120** 10-31-2002, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James
But this is a situation where the word "racism" is being defined as a political term with a context. The definition and context is then used to foster a type of argument.

People could say that dominant culture is inherently "racist", from this definition, because they perpetuate negative stereotypes on a minority and have the institutional power to make those views felt on the minority population.

So the previous white government in South Africa was "Racist" by this definition. However, the current black government is now "racist".

In any kind of debate it is important to agree on the definitions being used.

I understand the logic behind this definiton of "racism" and would be willing to accept it in the spirit it was being written if I were reviewing a position statement where the person was giving an analogy, metaphor, and a perspective.

I don't find this to be a useful definiton for debating here, because there doesn't seem to be significant agreement that this definiton stands.

So it confuses the debate, and puts us in a circular argument over the definiton of a word.

Sorry for this digression into argument deconstruction.

Um...was this supposed to have a point, or were you just fining tuning your ability to be unecessarily verbose?

I will attempt to wade through the words and find some sort of meaning in order to respond.

First of all, no one said that BECAUSE a culture is dominant, then they MUST be racist. It is a correlation, not causation. Here in the United States, yes, the dominant culture AS A WHOLE perpetuates a system of oppression on minorities. Does that mean that each individual of the dominant culture is inherently racist? No, of course not.

Again, I am not at all sure what your point was from this post, so I am not really sure what to expound on.

btw, DeltAlum, I have strong Cherokee blood...maybe we are cousins! lol