christianity in ritual?

[adpiucf]

I love you Russ! Happy Pesach!

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by adpiucf
I love you Russ! Happy Pesach!

Love you too! Happy Pesach right back at ya!

[Rudey]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
The issue with Hasidism is sort of grey, because they don't exactly consider reform Jews to be real Jews.

That synagogue, in Marrieta, was actively recruiting as of the 2002 article in the New York Times.

Russ,
that's not true. They are Jews if their mothers are or if they converted. Their practiced religion however is another discussion and who do you think does accept it outside of the Reform movement?

As for Hassidim, you're all trying to pin something on the Lubavitchers which are an Eastern European sect. They don't try and convert you. They only look for other Jews, of any denomination, and try and make them more devout. That is something every religion does.

-Rudey

[PhiPsiRuss]

I'm not an expert on Hasidism, by any stretch. I worked in a Hasidic restaurant for several months, many years ago, and that's what I go by.

[AOII_LB93]

Originally posted by Rudey
They are Jews if their mothers are or if they converted.

Now not to be totally ignorant and completely hijack the thread, but I'm curious, because I've know about the whole mom being Jewish thus children are Jewish as well.....so if my mom was Jewish, then automatically I would be Jewish even if I didn't want to be? Isn't religion more about your faith and less about being born into it? I guess I just wonder how that works because couldn't I choose not to be Jewish then and be Buddhist or Christian? Just wondering.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by AOII_LB93
Now not to be totally ignorant and completely hijack the thread, but I'm curious, because I've know about the whole mom being Jewish thus children are Jewish as well.....so if my mom was Jewish, then automatically I would be Jewish even if I didn't want to be? Isn't religion more about your faith and less about being born into it? I guess I just wonder how that works because couldn't I choose not to be Jewish then and be Buddhist or Christian? Just wondering.

Someone is born Jewish and doesn't hold the faith or do anything and later on decides to become observant. He is and was a Jew.

Someone is not born Jewish and is Catholic until they decide they like Judaism. They are not a Jew until they convert.

Judaism isn't just a religion...that's probably pretty difficult.

The liberal Reform movements might recognize someone whose father was Jewish and not mother but that isn't accepted by a lot of other movements.

So the answer is yes and no.

-Rudey

[breathesgelatin]

I just thought that I would tell a semi-funny story:

When I was a freshman my next door neighbor in the dorms was a devout Christian. She was a wonderful, sweet person. She was of Jewish descent and was also very interested in that heritage. I'm not sure if she converted to Christianity at some point or if she was raised believing in Jesus as the Messiah. I don't *think* she was part of Jews for Jesus--I think she just considered herself a "Messianic Jew". I don't know much about it really. After our freshman year she ended up transferring to a college in Israel. I was always a little confused by her. I think she did events both in Hillel and GCF (Generals Christian Fellowship). I don't really know what was going on with her religious life. Oh well.

Anyway that's not the funny part. She was also a really talented vocalist and pianist and wrote original religious songs. WHICH SHE LIKED TO PRACTICE AT 6:00 IN THE MORNING. Now, Susan is not a morning person. Nor is she hyper-religious. So, Susan was not too happy to be awakened every morning by these songs.

The end.

[AOII_LB93]

Originally posted by Rudey
Someone is born Jewish and doesn't hold the faith or do anything and later on decides to become observant. He is and was a Jew.

Someone is not born Jewish and is Catholic until they decide they like Judaism. They are not a Jew until they convert.

Judaism isn't just a religion...that's probably pretty difficult.

The liberal Reform movements might recognize someone whose father was Jewish and not mother but that isn't accepted by a lot of other movements.

So the answer is yes and no.

-Rudey

Ok I get the conversion thing, because that is how I am now Catholic...though I didn't really convert because I was never baptised to begin with, but anyhow...how can you be considered a Jew if you don't practice the faith? What if the mother was a convert to Judaism...does that mean the kid isn't a "real" Jew? I guess it's that I don't understand how Judaism is not just a religion.

Again, this is all questioning because I don't really understand, not because I am questioning faith.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by AOII_LB93
Ok I get the conversion thing, because that is how I am now Catholic...though I didn't really convert because I was never baptised to begin with, but anyhow...how can you be considered a Jew if you don't practice the faith? What if the mother was a convert to Judaism...does that mean the kid isn't a "real" Jew? I guess it's that I don't understand how Judaism is not just a religion.

Again, this is all questioning because I don't really understand, not because I am questioning faith.

Once the mother converts, she is a Jew. There are events that the child needs to have done but they will be Jewish.

And to be honest with you, it's really confusing so people have tried to figure out if the Jews are a people a religion or a nationality...everyone has different answers.

-Rudey

[Lil_ChiO_Lady]

Well i just wanted to say Happy Passover and Holy Week...and I feel for Chi Omega,it was mentioned to me.It is more of a moral issue rather then praising Jesus and such.We have many non-Christians who are in our chapter and they just do not participate in anything they feel uncomfortable in doing.I honestly can say that you will not have a problem,as long as they have the respect for your beliefs then its all good in the neighborhood.

[AOII_LB93]

Originally posted by Rudey
Once the mother converts, she is a Jew. There are events that the child needs to have done but they will be Jewish.

And to be honest with you, it's really confusing so people have tried to figure out if the Jews are a people a religion or a nationality...everyone has different answers.

-Rudey

Thanks. Appreciate the answers...I feel somewhat more enlightened.

[Sister Havana]

Originally posted by XOMichelle
It depends on your org. Chi Omega's open motto is "hellenic culture and christian ideals".

Interesting fact: There were a lot of Jewish members of the Theta Beta Chi Omega chapter at IU when I was there...in fact, I think that chapter had one of the highest amounts of Jewish sisters, after AEPhi and SDT...I think either Chi O or AXiD had the most Jewish members after those two.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by AOII_LB93
Ok I get the conversion thing, because that is how I am now Catholic...though I didn't really convert because I was never baptised to begin with, but anyhow...how can you be considered a Jew if you don't practice the faith? What if the mother was a convert to Judaism...does that mean the kid isn't a "real" Jew? I guess it's that I don't understand how Judaism is not just a religion.

Again, this is all questioning because I don't really understand, not because I am questioning faith.

Did you go through RCIA? I was under the impression you had to be baptized in order to do that...

I almost had to whip out the masonic police on you. I hold my masonic heritage very dearly and hving dad, uncles, grand dads and so on all masons i was getting kinda concerned there.....but if these are public OK!

Originally posted by AlphaSigOU
Traditionally, in most U.S. Masonic lodges, you'll see the Holy Bible on the altar, though any member may choose the use of the sacred book of his own faith (the Tanakh for the Jew, the Qu'ran for the Muslim, etc.) to take the obligations of Freemasonry. Some other Grand Lodges in other countries will place the holy writings of different faiths upon the altar.

For the three degrees, the Holy Bible is opened to the following passages of Scripture:

Entered Apprentice: Psalms 133. (Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for Brethren to dwell together in unity. It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron’s beard, that went down to the skirts of his garment. As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion; for there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life forevermore.) (Sound familiar? It's one of the most common passages of Scripture adopted by Greek letter organizations.)

Fellowcraft: Amos 7:7-8. (Thus He shewed me; and behold the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumb line, with a plumb line in His hand. And the Lord said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, a plumb line. Thus saith the Lord, Behold! I will set a plumb line in the midst of my people Israel. I will not again pass by them anymore.)

Master Mason: Ecclesiastes 12:1-7. (Remember now thy Creator, in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them; while the sun and the light, or the moon, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain. In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened, and the doors shall be shut in the streets. When the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of music shall be brought low. Also, when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail. Because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets; or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.)

In the Entered Apprentice initiation, before the candidate proceeds further in the ceremony, the Worshipful Master recites the following prayer:

Vouchsafe Thine aid, Almighty Father of the Universe, to this our present convention; and grant that this candidate for Masonry may dedicate and devote his life to Thy service, and become a true and faithful brother among us. Endue him with a competency of Thy divine wisdom that by the secrets of our art he may better be enabled to display the beauties of godliness to the honor of Thy Holy Name. Amen.

In the Master Mason degree, before the candidate is raised to the Sublime Degree of a Master Mason the Worshipful Master offers the following prayer:

Thou, O God, knowest our down-sitting and our up-rising, and understandest our thought afar off. Shield and defend us from the evil intentions of our enemies, and support us under the trials and afflictions we are destined to endure through this vale of tears. Man that is born of a woman is of but few days and full of trouble. He cometh forth as a flower and is cut down; he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not. Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with Thee; Thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass; turn from him that he may rest till he shall accomplish his day.

For if there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. But man dieth and wasteth away; yea man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and flood decayeth and drieth up, so man lieth down and riseth not up till the heavens shall be no more. Yet, O Lord, have compassion on the children of Thy creation; administer them comfort in time of trouble, and save them with an everlasting salvation! Amen.

In case you're wondering, these prayers are not considered secret in Freemasonry, so I'm not violating my Obligation as a Mason by posting them here.

[pirate00]

Yeah, it's OK. The bibilcal scripture pertaining to the first three degrees of Masonry are not kept secret witihn the Fraternity. Many volumes of masonic literature that are available to the public mention these and other scriptures referenced within our Fraternity.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cutiepatootie
[B]I almost had to whip out the masonic police on you. I hold my masonic heritage very dearly and hving dad, uncles, grand dads and so on all masons i was getting kinda concerned there.....but if these are public OK]