Non-social GLOs...do you honestly consider us fellow Greeks?

[KappaStargirl]

Originally posted by sairose


When I was pledging, one of the priveledges of membership we had to learn was to be esteemed as a fellow Greek by members of all other Greek letter organizations. However, I don't feel like the social GLOs, at least on OUR campus, really consider us Greek. But we very much are. We hold SAI and its ideals dear to our hearts and we cherish our sisterhood. SAI was founded in 1903, so it is as old as many of the social GLOs. But my experience with other Greeks is that they look down on us and one girl even told me that we weren't "real" Greeks. This made me very angry.

My question is this. To those of you in social frats/sororities, what is your view on the music GLOs? Do you really consider us Greek, and why or why not? Be completely honest, because I really want to know.

I've been reading this thread with great interest, trying to sort out my thoughts. To start, I am an SAI as well as a Kappa. I think SAI is a great organization, but I had a VERY negative collegiate experience. I guess the question of whether SAI and other music GLO's are considered on the same plane as NPC, etc. groups varies from school to school with the attitudes of the members of both groups.

I went to a school that houses one of SAI's oldest continuously operating chapters. It is one of the few Midwestern schools with a conservatory of music, music in general is a pretty big deal there. I joined Kappa first, at first I did not have the grades to get into SAI (but I worked my butt off and pledged a term later). I had always planned on joining SAI because my best friend is a Sinfonian, and from the start I considered it to be something completely different from Kappa. Kappa was for social promotion, SAI existed to improve my life and the lives of others through music. At first, things seemed ok. As time went on though, the divisions between the two groups, as well as SAI versus the other two NPC groups on campus, widened.

I think it all started when a girl I'll call Ellen wanted to pledge. During Rush, we were going down the list of girls who expressed interest in SAI, talking a little bit about each from her biography. No, nothing bad, just "she plays in the band but she's actually a biology major," things like that. The VP-Rush, when she came to Ellen's name, got really excited and said "Oh, she's so excited about joining SAI because she had a really bad experience during [NPC] rush." I should have left right then, for that was a sign of things to come. The truth is, Ellen was only interested in one group, and when they cut her before pref, she started bad-mouthing her rush experience rather than give the group that DID invite her back a shot. She passed this attitude on to all of her friends, a group of about 10 or 12, none of whom rushed NPC. Those 10 or 12 stuck together a lot, and as juniors held all the major positions in the group. As more NPC women joined SAI, the chapter began to divide between those in NPC groups and those who thought they were snobby elitists. Once they were in positions of power, they began to speak in a very holier-than-thou tone regarding not only the NPC groups, but the women who were members of both. They considered themselves more dedicated, better members, etc. This caused a rift that is still there three years after I graduated. Many members of both NPC GLO's and SAI took alum status early, because they feel the same way I do. They didn't want to deactivate because they respected SAI and what it stands for, but they were too uncomfortable in the group.

Today, that SAI chapter does all it can to tell the world they are not anything like an NPC group, and I really think it goes too far. As an example, DG approached SAI, asking if SAI would put together a team for Anchor Splash. All the NPC and NIC groups put together a team, and so did some residence halls and the Outdoor Recreation Club. SAI said "Oh no, we're a professional organization, we don't do things like that," and ignored DG's response that Anchor Splash was open to all groups on campus, and that it was for their philanthropy. Yet SAI is not above having formals. Sinfonia basically goes along with whatever SAI does.

The short version: I do not consider SAI to be on the same level as Kappa. One is certainly not better than the other, they simply exist for different purposes. Should SAI's be considered "real" Greeks? I think so. The ancient Greeks were enamored with music, I think they would be pleased that SAI exists and does what it does. Since I am in both, I can't exactly consider myself my fellow Greek , but do I think the different orgs deserve the same amount of respect? Yes. Maybe I am the dissenting voice because of my personal experience. A DG at my former school might tell you that she does NOT consider SAI's fellow Greeks because of the way SAI acts when it comes to NPC groups. Think about how the groups regard each other on campus, and it is there the answer to your question lies.

[DZTUBAGIRL]

sairose,
I totally agree with you about SAI being a just as much of a social sorority as any other one. But I just wanted to say that members of the music organizations at the schools I have gone to act the same way to the social organizations, they want nothing to do with them. I have a friend in Phi Mu Alpha and he makes fun of the greeks and says that he is happy that they are not apart of the social glo's because we are stuck up. I just wish that all of the organizations could just get along and be greeks together. Oh well I am sounding corny now.

Anne Marie

[KappaStargirl]

Originally posted by DZTUBAGIRL
I totally agree with you about SAI being a just as much of a social sorority as any other one. But I just wanted to say that members of the music organizations at the schools I have gone to act the same way to the social organizations, they want nothing to do with them. I have a friend in Phi Mu Alpha and he makes fun of the greeks and says that he is happy that they are not apart of the social glo's because we are stuck up. I just wish that all of the organizations could just get along and be greeks together. Oh well I am sounding corny now.

Anne Marie, I don't think you sound corny at all. I think the same thing is happening at your school that's happening at mine: The Sinfonians and the SAI's have formals and parties and things, but God forbid they should be associated with the social GLO's. Women join SAI as the "anti-sorority" and believe that they stand on a higher ground because SAI was founded on different principles. I wish the SAI chapter at my school had had more respect for the NPC groups, but the fact is that they don't and they're losing a lot of their members because of it. BTW, the NPC groups are NOT hypocritical about this, my SAI membership was encouraged by Kappa and no one in Kappa ever thought me to be a lesser sister because of it. SAI is respected on campus by Panhel, which is strange considering the circumstances.

[dzsaigirl]

Originally posted by KappaStargirl


Anne Marie, I don't think you sound corny at all. I think the same thing is happening at your school that's happening at mine: The Sinfonians and the SAI's have formals and parties and things, but God forbid they should be associated with the social GLO's. Women join SAI as the "anti-sorority" and believe that they stand on a higher ground because SAI was founded on different principles. I wish the SAI chapter at my school had had more respect for the NPC groups, but the fact is that they don't and they're losing a lot of their members because of it. BTW, the NPC groups are NOT hypocritical about this, my SAI membership was encouraged by Kappa and no one in Kappa ever thought me to be a lesser sister because of it. SAI is respected on campus by Panhel, which is strange considering the circumstances.

I just wanted to third that...This has happened at my school and I had to continually say "Hello! You think I am normal and I am a member of an NPC group!" and they would say "Oh, but you're different. You're not like the REST of them..." Yeah right. They want to do the same things and then they complain that they can't afford it while at the same time badmouthing the NPC groups because their dues are expensive (hello, we do more stuff, of course it costs more). I would say that my SAI experience also left something to be desired. Of course that is NOT to say that SAI is a bad organization because I love SAI and I think that it is a very important group and nationally a very positive thing for musicians and those who support music. I just wish that the chapters that have the wrong attitude would wake up and smell the coffee.

[RedRoseSAI]

sairose, dzsaigirl, KappaStargirl - I PMed you.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by KappaStargirl


I guess the question of whether SAI and other music GLO's are considered on the same plane as NPC, etc. groups varies from school to school with the attitudes of the members of both groups.

I think you've got that in a nutshell, KappaStargirl. At least with FMA, I know that some chapters like being the "anti-fraternity" so to speak, while many others want to be involved in Greek life in general. There does seem to be a trend of Sinfonia chapters joining their school's IFC, and from what I have heard, their experience has generally been positive, both in terms of involvement and of recruitment.

Some of this situation may be fostered by the fact that students in many music schools/departments tend, for a variety of reasons, to be "a world unto themselves" in lots of ways. On the other hand, there are FMA chapters without a single music major in them.

It can get more complicated, too. At my school, some of the members of MFE liked portray themselves as the "anti-Sinfonia" alternative because they, unlike us, were co-ed. Some took special pleasure in pledging a guy (which they only did a few times) because it seemed to be a way of saying we were too "social," too much like "other fraternities" (which we didn't have a problem with anyway). Go figure.

BTW, kudos to Kappa! Mrs. MysticCat is one.

[AOX81]

Originally posted by sairose
My question is this. To those of you in social frats/sororities, what is your view on the music GLOs? Do you really consider us Greek, and why or why not?

Absolutely!!!

[sairose]

Since I'm the one who started this thread I've been reading every post and I've collected some more thoughts on the issue.

Sometimes people *do* pledge music(or other non-social) GLOs because they want to be in one without being in a social one. I pledged SAI for a number of reasons, but the main reason was that I wanted the Greek experience; I wanted a group of girls to call my sisters. However the greek system at my school leaves much to be desired. Unfortunately the social sororities at my school tend to drink a lot and I am a Christian and I believe it is wrong to drink. (Please don't start a religious war on here though; that is simply MY belief; I respect what anyone else on Greek Chat believes, so please respect me for this too). I knew I would not be comfortable with a group of girls that drink a lot; I felt it would pressure me to do things that I didn't want to do.

So yes, I guess you can say that SAI was a much better Greek option for me. We have a small chapter--10 or 12 girls--and only two drink, and they have NEVER encouraged me to drink. I still have all the other benefits of being Greek, but without the pressure and temptations.

Has anyone else on here in non-social GLOs joined their groups for similar reasons? Just curious.

ANYWAYS....my point is, yes, in some ways people tend to join groups like SAI as an alternative, but we are still Greek. I really hope that someday, there won't be all these divisions--she's a social Greek, she's a black Greek, she's a music Greek, she's in a service Greek. I hope someday, we'll all just simply be seen as "Greek", no matter WHAT type of GLO we are.

[FuzzieAlum]

As long as we all have separate systems (NPC has different rush than NPHC and service groups have non-selective rush; NPCs mix with IFCs and NPHC mix with each other; professional and service Greeks generally don't have houses) we will continue to regard ourselves as different from each other. I don't think that's a bad thing; APhiO for example serves a very different purpose from AXD, and that's why I know people who are members of both. However, I'm not suggesting one kind of Greek should think of themselves as "better" than another. I respect service GLOs and other groups I chose not to join. People should join the organizations where they feel at home and that meet their needs.

(I would say that honor societies, despite their Greek names, aren't GLOs, but that's about the only exception I would make.)

[GA2001bunny9]

First of all I want to send out much love to anyone that has ever made the decision and gone through the ritual of pledging any organization. It takes a special kind of person to decide that greek life is something that they want to partake in.

Now in response to question I feel that all greek lettered organizations should be treated equally. We all pledged, we all went through the rituals that are traditions of our chapters as well, as our national organizations, and we all made a decision to dedicate our time, love and hardwork to something other than ourselves and our education. We all pay dues, we all socialize, and we all try to better our campus and our surrounding communities, therefore we all deserve the same respect and equal treatment whether we sit as members on any national greek board such as the NPHC.

I am a proud member of Gamma Sigma Sigma National Service Sorority, and at my school we do all of the same things that the social greeks do and we where pins and jackets and shirts, and step and everything else, therefore we should be treated just like any of the other organizations and generally speaking we are. Every now and then you are going to run into some issues, but it is up to you as members of your individual organizations to make sure that you get the respect and recognition that you feel is your do. You can't really complain if you aren't trying to do anything to make it better.

That's all for now.

WEEEEEEEEEEE-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP
to all of my sorors out there!!

[gamma_girl52]

Wellll I just think my soror put it down.

I have much LOVE and RESPECT for ALL greeks out there, whatever you may be. Always in Greek Unity!

[Tom Earp]

YES, I am a proud member of 2 Fraternitys!

LXA and APO!

Enuff said!

[Kevin]

Hate to sound like a broken record here.... But there is no absolute standard for what is or isn't a Greek org.

It's all relativism.

People here are getting really hung up on whether something IS or IS NOT a GLO in the same sense.... I think that at different campuses, your SAI's, Mu Phi Alphas, APO's are all extremely different from place to place.

When I was active in CKI I would have never thought to call it a fraternity -- but that's often how it is at some campuses (just not mine).

I'll say that as far as what I would consider Greek -- I'll know it when I see it!

As long as you love your organization and call your members brothers or sisters (or whatever) that's enough for me!

[AZDZetaSigma03]

I am a member of both Sigma Alpha Iota and Alpha Xi Delta, and frankly I don't consider SAI to be, officially, a greek organization. I know we have all the rituals and stuff, which is cool, but I know if I had to choose between the two, I would choose Alpha Xi. And if I wasn't in SAI, I wouldn't consider it Greek. A lot of that's because we don't participate in Greek Week, we don't do recruitment at the same time or follow the same rules (frankly, we do things in my chapter--not hazing--that we could never get away with in a social GLO because of PC rules). A lot of people at my campus consider SAI and Phi Mu Alpha members as "wanna-be Greeks" or the organizations people join if they want to be like the Greeks but still maintain a squeaky clean image.
And I know SAI isn't just for music majors. We've only had one in the time I've been there (2.5 years)! But it is limited to people who are musical.

[nyrdrms]

Yes, I do consider non-social Greeks to be a part of the Greek life community. I know that they sometimes feel as though they are excluded, but I guess it's more a question of how the organization itself wishes to be viewed. I've sat on the committee for Greek Week and, although we invited them, no non-social Greek organizations took part in Greek Week. Also, when I was philanthropy chair, I extended invitations to the non-social Greek organizations on our campus (ALL of them) to take part in our events that are open only to Greeks, but only Alpha Phi Omega responded.

I think it really all depends on the different schools and their over-all attitudes toward Greek life as to who is or is not considered to be part of the Greek community.