Stop the "Baby" Talk

[honeychile]

I think the crest is universal - NOBODY can or should wear the crest unless they are full sisters.

[Gusteau]

I remember being a little worried last year when my sister sent me a text message saying "If one more person calls me a baby bunny I am going to punch them in the face!"

Luckily she didn't pinch any of her new sisters

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I think the crest is universal - NOBODY can or should wear the crest unless they are full sisters.

I think you're right, but there's something about that that always baffles me -- why do some people consider it bad, or even hazing, to say that members who haven't been initiated yet can't wear letters, yet they don't raise the same argument about not letting pledges/new members wear coats of arms? No, the pledge/NM doesn't know what the arms mean, but they don't know what the letters mean either. I don't see any difference.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

No, the pledge/NM doesn't know what the arms mean, but they don't know what the letters mean either. I don't see any difference.

Not always true.

Alpha Sigma Alpha and Alpha Sigma Tau both have open mottoes that correspond to their Greek letters, so you can't say that pledges "don't know what they mean." Anyone looking at the banner below the crests would know what the letters mean. (Whether they mean MORE than that may or may not be another story.) There may be other groups that have open mottos too, but those are the two I thought of off the top of my head.

This is why I consider it silly when I hear my sisters saying pledges should not wear letters - but I would never presume to tell anyone else the same thing. I have no idea what their letters mean or don't mean. If Theta has ritual saying they shouldn't be worn until after initiation, it's offensive if a school or anyone else tells them they should do things differently.

To look at it in a purely practical sense, there is usually too much imagery on a crest to explain what it all means on bid day/whenever you pin in your pledges.

[IndianaSigKap]

Back in the day, our Pi Phis were not allowed to wear the Beta. They couldn't even spell it out. Their bid day shirts always had Pi Phi in script. I think they may have changed with the script now. I believe, I have seen girls from campus with bid day shirts with beta written out, but have been told they still are not allowed to wear the greek Pi Beta Phi letters until initiation.

[KayDee29]

A friend of mine is a Tri Sigma, and apparently at their school they call their new members "Baby Sailboats." I didn't realize a Sailboat could be a baby, but I chose not to point that out.

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

I remember being a little worried last year when my sister sent me a text message saying "If one more person calls me a baby bunny I am going to punch them in the face!"

Luckily she didn't pinch any of her new sisters

LOL! Two chapters at GMU have used "babies" on FB this year already. You would think with all of the talk about it over the past couple years, their advisors would have said something to their chapters by now.

[sigmagirl2000]

Originally Posted by KayDee29

A friend of mine is a Tri Sigma, and apparently at their school they call their new members "Baby Sailboats." I didn't realize a Sailboat could be a baby, but I chose not to point that out.

Perhaps they should just call them Sunfish or AquaFins?

[groovypq]

You know, it's funny, ZTA does not prevent NMs from wearing letters (they cannot wear the crest until initiated), but in my chapter it seems like NMs don't WANT to wear them til initiation. Maybe it's because they get so many as gifts then. :-)

[33girl]

Originally Posted by groovypq

You know, it's funny, ZTA does not prevent NMs from wearing letters (they cannot wear the crest until initiated), but in my chapter it seems like NMs don't WANT to wear them til initiation. Maybe it's because they get so many as gifts then. :-)

If it's a campus tradition, regardless of what your HQ or bylaws say, most people will follow along by what the rest of campus does.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000

Perhaps they should just call them Sunfish or AquaFins?

Oh, PLEASE don't call them dinghies!!

[ASTalumna06]

I just saw a pic online that has 2 girls (I won't say from which sorority) holding a poster that reads:

"No maybes.. ABC has the hottest babies!"

Does anyone else find this saying disturbing?

[KillarneyRose]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000

Perhaps they should just call them Sunfish or AquaFins?

Or maybe dingheys?

And DZ pledges can be hatchlings!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KillarneyRose

Or maybe dingheys?

And DZ pledges can be hatchlings!

Maybe my group can start calling alumnae "cougars"!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Not always true.

Alpha Sigma Alpha and Alpha Sigma Tau both have open mottoes that correspond to their Greek letters, so you can't say that pledges "don't know what they mean." Anyone looking at the banner below the crests would know what the letters mean. (Whether they mean MORE than that may or may not be another story.) There may be other groups that have open mottos too, but those are the two I thought of off the top of my head.

Very true, and I should have (1) remembered that, and (2) qualified my bafflement as relating only to those organizations where pledges do not know any meaning for the letters -- in other words, where the letters and the coat of arms are on equal footing in terms of pledges not knowing what they mean and in terms of that information not coming until initiation. That's what I was really getting at -- if pledges do not know either the meaning of the letters or the meaning of the coat of arms (or whatever other symbol), I'm a little baffled when some people say it's wrong, or even hazing, to tell them they can't wear one (letters) but accept telling them they can't wear the other (arms).

To be clear, absolutely any group can and should have whatever policy they think is appropriate, and no other GLO, campus or non-member should question or criticize that. What raises my eyebrows a little is when it's described as "hazing" not to let pledges/NMs wear letters. It raises my eyebrows both because I think it can imply that those groups who do things differently might be hazing, and because if it's hazing not to let pledges wear letters, why isn't it also hazing not to let them wear the coat of arms? There just seems to be a logical inconsistency there -- again, if the justification about not wearing the arms is that pledges don't know what they mean and if letters and arms are the same in terms of what pledges do or don't know about them.

To look at it in a purely practical sense, there is usually too much imagery on a crest to explain what it all means on bid day/whenever you pin in your pledges.

Sure, but on top of that, the explanation is often part of the initiation ritual that only initiated brothers/sisters know. It's always been my sense that's how it is for most groups.


Back on topic, I do feel the need to point out that my own fraternity did in the early days informally call new members (and new chapters) "kittens." It was all part of the pervasive cat symbolism reflected in my username.